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Dems will fight like wild animals to keep this program unchanged. This is why it is so important to actually do it!
1 posted on 11/11/2004 10:40:47 AM PST by sadness in phintown
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To: sadness in phintown

Sadly the republicans are already backing off social security reform which is too bad since it should be by far THE most important thing on their domestic agenda and the one with the most long lasting positive impact on this country.


2 posted on 11/11/2004 10:42:56 AM PST by rudehost
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To: sadness in phintown

Dems don't want to lose the ability to spend other people's money, that is all.


3 posted on 11/11/2004 10:44:24 AM PST by Mudcat
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To: sadness in phintown

Changing this program will NOT damage the democrats, they still have the legalized murder of the unborn.


5 posted on 11/11/2004 10:45:38 AM PST by trubluolyguy (Pajamajadeen?!!? Hell with that, Freep nude!)
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To: sadness in phintown

An "Ownership Society" severely depresses if it does
not outright destroy the class warfare mantra; it also
takes out of the hands of the govt and puts into the
hands of the people. The calls of "we will take care
of you" begin to resonate among a smaller and smaller
section of the population.

MV


7 posted on 11/11/2004 10:47:34 AM PST by madvlad ((Born in the south, raised around the globe and STILL republican))
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To: sadness in phintown
This single program locked in the voting habits of a generation by promising them "savings" which would be paid out upon retirement. This single program spawned an entitlement mentality that has manifested itself in dozens of other programs and has resulted in a slippage in the percentage of Americans who exhibit the unique traits of Americanism that have made America the most economically and militarily powerful country in the world.

TRUE!

9 posted on 11/11/2004 10:48:57 AM PST by 2banana (They want to die for Islam and we want to kill them)
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To: sadness in phintown

Good article.


13 posted on 11/11/2004 10:53:40 AM PST by xrp (Executing assigned posting duties flawlessly -- ZERO mistakes)
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To: sadness in phintown

If we throw this out and change the tax system, the Dems will have nothing to run on! What can they 'promise' people anymore?


14 posted on 11/11/2004 10:54:54 AM PST by traviskicks (Poverty has no causes. Only prosperity has causes. - Jane Jacobs)
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To: sadness in phintown

The danger of an entire nation putting investment money all at once into the stock market?

Anyone know?

Seems it might artificially drive prices up during those initial years.

Seems it might artificially prop up companies that otherwise would go broke.


16 posted on 11/11/2004 10:56:53 AM PST by xzins ((Now that the election's over; I need a new tagline...))
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To: sadness in phintown
Would a viable option be to let workers (like me) forgo all future SS payments and their accumulated earnings in their SS accounts in exchange for allowing workers to invest their SS withholdings? The SS system would get tons of money from current workers opting out and the system would not incur future obligations for these workers. Does this plan seem feasible? I would be willing to give up 20+ years of ss withholdings if i could invest my share of the SS tax. I have about 26 years to retire. I believe i would come out ahead of SS even when giving up 20+ years of earnings.
17 posted on 11/11/2004 10:59:29 AM PST by homeless
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To: sadness in phintown

Why do Republicans support the concept of "social security" in the first place?

It's socialism, plain and simple.


19 posted on 11/11/2004 11:00:54 AM PST by k2blader (It is neither compassionate nor conservative to support the expansion of socialism.)
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To: sadness in phintown

Up to now, Social Security has been nothing but an additional source of revenue for the general funds in the US Treasury. This is what is making the Democrats so crazy - the total revenue by the Federal government will be reduced.

Which is the whole point. The money out in private accounts is not available to the Federal government except by borrowing it on the open market, in competition with other entities that also offer to borrow money. And as such, the interest rate that would be paid would have to be competitive, and not just what the Government Accounting Office thought was a reasonable rate of return (if any return on the individual's investment is taken into consideration).

If the Federal government had been taking even a portion of the funds paid in on behalf of the Social Security program, and investing in the Fanny May and Ginny May real estate mortgage purchase funds, every one of the mortgage insurance programs would have been fully solvent by now. And mortgage foreclosures could be seen as stiffing Grandma, so there is an additional guilt factor at work.


20 posted on 11/11/2004 11:03:07 AM PST by alloysteel
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To: sadness in phintown

Here is the core:

The reason this will destroy the modern Democratic party is due to the concept of universal ownership of a growing retirement account by all working Americans. Consider this: the scuttlebutt is that President Bush will propose allowing working Americans to invest 2% of their wages that is now paid into the present antiquated Social Security system, to instead be put into their own private retirement account. Working Americans would still pay a 15% Social Security Tax, but 2% would be yours to invest in your own account. For a 26 year old making $30,000 a year, this 2% would amount to $600. I can hear you now - "heck, that's not much".

But remember, the money is likely going to be invested and earn a return. Assuming a modest return of only 5%, AND that the 2% didn't increase over time (as it should), AND that the 26 year old didn't earn a higher salary as he got older (as he will), then he will have a nest egg of $10,000 in about 12 years. He'll have $20,000 in 20 years. and at 65 years old, he'll have his own retirement fund worth $70,000.

And that's with only 2% being used for his own account. Remember, the government today takes 15%. If, as I hope, the President's plan allows this 2% to be gradually increased over time, every American who works a lifetime, will have a secure retirement fund far in excess of what the Democratic Social Security program ever provided. One more group of numbers for you. If our hypothetical 26 year old was allowed to invest 5% of her wages, AND her average salary was $40,000 over her life, her retirement nest egg would be $240,000. Remember, this assumes a rate of return on investments of 5%. The stock market has traditionally provided a return of just about 10%.

Without trying to run the numbers in any greater detail, the bottom line is obvious and striking - working Americans who are allowed to own a portion of their own retirement taxes will be radically different from the ones who live now.

And they will act differently, think differently, and vote differently. This is what will bring down the Democrats.


25 posted on 11/11/2004 11:20:36 AM PST by Atlas Sneezed (Your Friendly Freeper Patent Attorney)
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To: sadness in phintown
The Dems are right to fight. Their survival is at stake. If even the smallest degree of privatization (aka personal economic freedom) gets into this program, it will grow and grow and ultimately destroy the Democrat dependency racket.

By the way, I hope the list of proposed choices for these accounts is broad. If choices are limited to a short list of government approved stock and bond indexes, getting your company into the S&P 500 will become a corrupt Washington lobbyist's game that will greatly damage our capital markets.

30 posted on 11/11/2004 11:55:47 AM PST by SupplySider
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To: sadness in phintown
I just finished watching MSNBC and Ron Insana interview Stephen Forbes and one of the Sink Emperor's old towel holders on the possibility of change to the tax code and social security.
Forbes has his usual far out ideas, a little kooky but nevertheless interesting and thought provoking. The Clintonoid had nothing to offer other than to re-fight the campaign with the mantra that Bush had shifted the tax burden from the rich to the middle class, yada, yada. Not only that, but evertime Forbes spoke on the split screen, the towel holder sat there, shaking his head in pity at poor old Forbes and smirking until it came his turn to talk.
I thought to myself that they have learned nothing from this past election and if they keep up the this pity and condescension routine, they're going to lose even more elections in 2006.
32 posted on 11/11/2004 12:20:37 PM PST by finnigan2
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To: sadness in phintown


This one change will make all the difference for the American people. It's FAR more important than suffling the deck chairs with tax reform. Go for this first, have a gigantic nationwide debate, and ramrod it thru. As the article says, when Americans see their own private monthly statements start to add up, "they will act differently, think differently, and vote differently. This is what will bring down the Democrats."


37 posted on 11/11/2004 1:59:03 PM PST by trenton1776
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