Posted on 11/11/2004 8:04:52 AM PST by FairOpinion
Some safety and privacy experts are reacting with apprehension, others with all out condemnation over a recent ruling by the National Transportation Safety Board to require electronic data recorders or "black boxes" in all new cars manufactured in the United States.
"I take offense that this personal property of individuals is now being designed by the federal government," said Jim Harper, privacy attorney and editor of Privacilla.org.
EDRs are certainly not new. Information gathered on black boxes — typically everything from speed, brake pressure, seat belt use and air bag deployment — has already been used in determining guilt in criminal and civil cases across the country.
Privacy experts warn that once cars are outfitted for the most limited data recording, the government will find a way to argue it’s for drivers’ "own good" to collect more. They point to a push in recent years to install GPS in all cars so that emergency officials can easily find incapacitated accident victims.
"When you are telling someone it is for their own good, then it should be their own choice, they should be able to say ‘no,’" said professor Yale Kamisar of the University of Michigan Law School. "None of these things work out the way they are supposed to. Why should we believe all of these assurances when they haven’t been honored in the past?"
(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...
Some time back Neil Boortz had a guest on the show that was developing an countermeasure device you could plug in.
" Freedom is not the ability to do whatever you want with impunity."
A real word twister. People like you scare me to death. From the time I was little they existed. They used to defend these kinds of things with phrases like "look how much better this country is than Russia". And "that will never happen". Well all those things happened...and it just keeps getting worse because you are like that frog in the boiling water. And you can't see the heat is being cranked up. Unlike the frog...God gave you the power of reason and comparison. But some people don't have the good grace to use it.
Looks like I won't be buying a new American car then.
The insurance companies are pushing for this...and have been for years. Soon, they will limit claim pay outs if you were travelling...say.....10 miles an hour over the speed limit.
Remember, it's all about the bucks.
Hey Rinkrat, this goes for you too.
Happy? I want you to be happy. I want to be happy too. I just don't think I will be happy when my car starts spying on me and ratting me out.
Had an example of technology catching up to fun earlier this year. There's a creekside road in Southern Pa. that has no access and almost 2 miles of clear sightlines. If you drive within your lines, the road is banked the wrong way but if you cross the lines repeatedly it's like LeMans, a great course. (Fun-loving) people having been driving it that way for years (when there's no oncoming traffic). Someone behind me called me in on a cell phone and the cops were waiting at the end for me. My first ticket in 15 years.
That's different than paying $30,000 for a personal vehicle that squeals on you to the government and corporations.
What amazed me about this thread is that we're one week past an election when millions of people, many of whom had never voted before, joined to resist socialism, statism and Communist collaborators. And now, we're arguing among ourselves about a statist, anti-individual government/corporate proposal to diminish our freedoms. And yes, having the government permanently resident on your property, keeping a list of your behaviors, does violate the Fourth Amendment, IMHO.
I fail to see how the power to regulate interstate commerce allows them to mandate a monitoring device in someone's private property.
That's about the reaction I would expect from someone who didn't have an interest in politcs before September 11, 2001.
But it has everything to do with the Constitution. The federal government - especially an executive agency with no legislative power - can force this on private companies and individuals. And, yes, I would say the same thing about commercial airliners. The federal government has no constitutional jurisdiction in such areas.
So why don't you think that applies to the federal government as well? The feds do not have the right to do whatever they want with impunity.
John Kerry was never able to participate in a lively, fun debate without being insulting, either.
This is the reason why I said I had nothing to hide. I don't drive like a looney, I don't speed, I don't run red lights, I don't weave into other lanes on a rarely used road because it's fun and I don't drink so drinking and driving is never a problem. Oh, I don't do drugs, either.
One other thing I don't do is insult other freepers just because I don't agree with their position. This is part of the reason why John Kerry lost the election. All of his arguments always had to have something insulting in them. He could never just argue the issues. (I'm not saying you were insulting, Mewzilla, but quite a few people on this thread have been)
"a perfect example of how the country can electorally keep moving to the right, even as all of the wonks who populate the Federal bureaus keep tacking to the left."
The problem is, there is practically no difference between conservatives and liberals when it comes to stuff like this.
With the exception of "cranking it up" now and again, my driving habits are the same. We have long lonesome stretches of road in Texas and it endangers NO ONE, other than the driver. Sure the insurance company might like this data, but I'm the one paying for this too (as well as the car).
This is nothing but "big brother" intruding into our lives.
Looks like I won't be buying a new American car then.
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Excellent point. Great way to kill the US car industry and give foreign cars the edge. Interesting they are not requiring it of all cars SOLD in the US, only the ones MANUFACTURED here.
Good point in #96.... bump!
This is red meat for the ACLU types. Unfortunately, they are interested in control, not liberty, so they will not pursue any cases along these lines. Watch.
That's why we need to spread the word.
I wouldn't have known about it either if it hadn't been for FR.
A friendly debater! I should have known it would be a Texan. I'm also in Texas but a long way from you if you are down South. I'm up North.
I agree, it is big brother, but it could possibly save lives and also find stolen cars. I guess this is just one of those things that I don't care if they do, it shouldn't affect most people in a negative way.
When I was a teenager, this is something I would have hated.
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