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Privacy Experts Shun Black Boxes (electronic data recorders now mandatory in all cars)
FoxNews ^ | Nov. 11, 2004 | Kelley Beaucar Vlahos

Posted on 11/11/2004 8:04:52 AM PST by FairOpinion

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To: tuffydoodle
"Debate" suggests that people can at least agree on a basic premise. I believe that the Constitution should serve as a restraint on federal power; you don't. I find that insulting.
101 posted on 11/12/2004 4:22:41 AM PST by sheltonmac ("Duty is ours; consequences are God's." -Gen. Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson)
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To: mewzilla; tuffydoodle

Wonderfully put. How about this: governing is a privilege, not a right. Just because some fool was elected to office doesn't mean he or she has been given carte blanche to pass whatever idiotic regulation they see fit. Again, I will point out that the NTSB is an executive agency. It does not have legislative power. It is unconstitutional, illegal and immoral for such an entity to exercise that kind of control over the private sector. It's one thing for a business - a car rental company, for instance - to implement this. It's wrong for the government to require it.

Why do I get the feeling that the concepts of individual liberty and limited government have become strangers to this forum?

102 posted on 11/12/2004 4:41:51 AM PST by sheltonmac ("Duty is ours; consequences are God's." -Gen. Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson)
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To: tuffydoodle

Well! Aren't we a bit thin-skinned? I can't help it if you take offense at someone pointing out the fact that you're a political reactionary. I also can't help it if you don't like anyone criticizing your pro-big government views.

103 posted on 11/12/2004 4:42:27 AM PST by sheltonmac ("Duty is ours; consequences are God's." -Gen. Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson)
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To: tuffydoodle
It's not that difficult, is it?:))

Besides the blatant fact that the federal government has no business in our business (as well as education, energy, housing, etc.), there is still more to it. Who is going to write the program to read all this data? Who will set the parameters? How fast over the speed limit is too fast (if there is any slack)?

All these issues, and more, will be decided by unelected, non-accountable people, making an arbitrary judgment, having never been to the scene of the accident/crime, whatever.

Then we get to the cost issues, where the bulk will be picked up by the taxpayer. But of course, it's for our own good.

104 posted on 11/12/2004 7:03:12 AM PST by SouthTexas
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To: SouthTexas

You wouldn't think it would be too difficult. Hostile people tend to lose credibility, wish they would realize that.

You make some very valid points, some that I hadn't thought of. Wearing seatbelts is a law that gets into people's personal space, do you think that it's an unfair law?


105 posted on 11/12/2004 7:09:31 AM PST by tuffydoodle
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To: tuffydoodle
Agree.

Unfair? No. Does the law have validity under the Constitution? No. Does it save lives? (After much consternation) Yes.

Does it really justify itself given the massive costs of every city, county, and state agency charged with it's enforcement, I don't think so.

106 posted on 11/12/2004 7:48:56 AM PST by SouthTexas
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To: FairOpinion

well, only if we can use pop-up blockers and delete our cookies...
:o)))


107 posted on 11/12/2004 8:00:44 AM PST by Liberty Valance (Shoot low boys, they're ridin' Shetland ponies)
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To: Revel

I heard it was built into the Onboard computer making disabling via hardware difficult.


108 posted on 11/12/2004 8:03:07 AM PST by JustAnotherOkie
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To: FairOpinion

Next, they will have cameras in our houses to watch us.


109 posted on 11/12/2004 8:28:48 AM PST by buffyt (America will never seek a permission slip to defend the security of our people. Pres. George Bush)
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To: SouthTexas

They discussed it a lot on radio talk show yesterday in Houston, Chris Baker Show. An auto mechanic called in and said that when insurance reps show up asking for the black box, after an accident, he refuses to give it to them, without the car owner's permission.....


110 posted on 11/12/2004 8:29:54 AM PST by buffyt (America will never seek a permission slip to defend the security of our people. Pres. George Bush)
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To: RinkRat23

If you were speeding when you had a wreck you might get your insurance claim rejected.....


111 posted on 11/12/2004 8:30:55 AM PST by buffyt (America will never seek a permission slip to defend the security of our people. Pres. George Bush)
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To: FairOpinion

I was thinking the same thing. We really enjoy our Porsche Carrera and I would love to buy a new Volvo, or a Porsche Cayenne, IF I ever get to replace my suckola Plymouth van.


112 posted on 11/12/2004 8:32:00 AM PST by buffyt (America will never seek a permission slip to defend the security of our people. Pres. George Bush)
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To: Mikey_1962
I would be nice if stolen cars could be identified and de-activated by satellite... no more car chases.

Up until carjackers got a of hold of the technology and stopped YOUR car in the middle of nowhere, with you in it.

113 posted on 11/12/2004 8:33:52 AM PST by Paul C. Jesup
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To: FairOpinion

It may be the law to have them installed but is there a law against disabling something that I OWN?


114 posted on 11/12/2004 8:35:08 AM PST by Bloody Sam Roberts (May the wings of Liberty never lose so much as a feather.)
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To: FoxInSocks
" GPS also allows rental car companies to shut off the engine of a car and lock a renter out of it."

No, GPS does not "allow" that at all. GPS can be used to accurately determine your position, and just as importantly, to obtain a highly accurate time reference (with these two items, velocity & acceleration can also be computed). That's it.

Now if the "journalist" had bothered to research the subject, they'd have discovered that GPS is a receive-only system (i.e. there's no way for the GPS "system" to track where the users of the system are), and that it's some other comman/control system that is allowing rental companies to remotely manage their vehicles.

115 posted on 11/12/2004 8:38:35 AM PST by whd23
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To: SouthTexas

I'll get back to you on this, I'm fixing to go have lunch with an old friend and her new husband.

Thanks for the fun debate. Lots of food for thought here.


116 posted on 11/12/2004 9:07:31 AM PST by tuffydoodle
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To: SouthTexas

There is a good joke here.

What are the final words heard on the black box of a redneck's truck?

"Here, hold muh beer and watch this!"


117 posted on 11/12/2004 12:58:54 PM PST by tuffydoodle
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To: FairOpinion

Unless we can get nanny state regulations like this overturned, there's no point being the majority party.


118 posted on 11/12/2004 1:57:39 PM PST by IStillBelieve (G.W. Bush '04: Biggest popular-vote victory in history, and first popular-vote majority in 16 years!)
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To: FairOpinion
""Of all tyrannies a tyranny exercised for the good of its victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis.
119 posted on 11/12/2004 2:01:58 PM PST by FrankR (Don't let the bastards wear you down...)
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To: tuffydoodle
I wouldn't care if it was on my vehicle as I have nothing to hide.

First they came for the Jews...

120 posted on 11/12/2004 2:11:04 PM PST by Dr.Deth
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