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When Vietnam vets came home (Soldiers being spit on is just an urban myth)
News and Observer ^ | Nov 10, 2004 | JOHN LLEWELLYN

Posted on 11/10/2004 3:35:05 PM PST by mykdsmom

WINSTON-SALEM -- Last week voters went to the polls to select a vision for the future. Now Americans must find a way forward together. This week, as we honor service and sacrifice on Veterans Day, an image from this political season must be put to rest.

The presidential campaign featured the resurgence of a myth from the early 1990s. That myth is that soldiers returning from Vietnam were spit upon by citizens or war protesters. That claim has been used to turn honest differences of opinion about the war into toxic indictments.

As a scholar of urban legends I am usually involved with accounts of vanishing hitchhikers and involuntary kidney donors. These stories are folklore that harmlessly reveals the public imagination. However, accounts of citizens spitting on returning soldiers -- any nation's soldiers -- are not harmless stories. These tales evoke an emotional firestorm.

I have studied urban legends for nearly 20 years and have been certified as an expert on the subject in the federal courts. Nonetheless, it dawned on me only recently that the spitting story was a rumor that has grown into an urban legend. I never wanted to believe the story but I was afraid to investigate it for fear that it could be true.

Why could I not identify this fiction sooner? The power of the story and the passion of its advocates offer a powerful alchemy of guilt and fear -- emotions not associated with clearheadedness.

Labeling the spitting story an urban legend does not mean that something of this sort did not happen to someone somewhere. You cannot prove the negative -- that something never happened. However, most accounts of spitting emerged in the mid-1980s only after a newspaper columnist asked his readers who were Vietnam vets if they had been spit upon after the war (an odd and leading question to ask a decade after the war's end). The framing of the question seemed to beg for an affirmative answer.

• • •

In 1998 sociologist and Vietnam veteran Jerry Lembcke published "The Spitting Image: Myth, Media and the Legacy of Viet Nam." He recounts a study of 495 news stories on returning veterans published from 1965 to 1971. That study shows only a handful (32) of instances were presented as in any way antagonistic to the soldiers. There were no instances of spitting on soldiers; what spitting was reported was done by citizens expressing displeasure with protesters.

Opinion polls of the time show no animosity between soldiers and opponents of the war. Only 3 percent of returning soldiers recounted any unfriendly experiences upon their return.

So records from that era offer no support for the spitting stories. Lembcke's research does show that similar spitting rumors arose in Germany after World War I and in France after its Indochina war. One of the persistent markers of urban legends is the re-emergence of certain themes across time and space.

There is also a common-sense method for debunking this urban legend. One frequent test is the story's plausibility: how likely is it that the incident could have happened as described? Do we really believe that a "dirty hippie" would spit upon a fit and trained soldier? If such a confrontation had occurred, would that combat-hardened soldier have just ignored the insult? Would there not be pictures, arrest reports, a trial record or a coroner's report after such an event? Years of research have produced no such records.

Lembcke underscores the enduring significance of the spitting story for this Veterans Day. He observes that as a society we are what we remember. The meaning of Vietnam and any other war is not static but is created through the stories we tell one another. To reinforce the principle that policy disagreements are not personal vendettas we must put this story to rest.

Our first step forward is to recognize that we are not a society that disrespects the sacrifices of our servicemembers. We should ignore anyone who tries to tell us otherwise. Whatever our aspirations for America, those hopes must begin with a clear awareness of who we are not.

(John Llewellyn is an associate professor of communication at Wake Forest University.)


TOPICS: Culture/Society; US: North Carolina
KEYWORDS: academiccesspool; dorkofwakeforest; hanoijohnnyacademic; idioteducator; incivility; leftspeak; liberalcollege; myth; politicalcorrectness; spit; spitspeaksvolumes; vietnamveterans; whaledungexpert
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To: Mr. Silverback

my son is USAF Academy Class of 2000. He is currently obtaining his Masters Degree and is a Capt.


301 posted on 11/10/2004 9:38:04 PM PST by Gibtx (Pajamahadien call to arms.....)
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To: TexasCowboy
I wasn't actually at the Hooters in Albuquerque...and I was only told who won the prize for the competition.
302 posted on 11/10/2004 9:39:27 PM PST by marmar (Faith is a beautiful thing.....)
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To: RaceBannon

I am so sorry that you had to read this garbage. What is your opinion, has it been a "good" thing to start bringing the old Vietnam lies out in the open (lke the Swifites) to expose and finally put them to rest, or not?


303 posted on 11/10/2004 9:39:56 PM PST by Libertina (We praise You Lord, You have granted America a Christian leader!)
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To: TexasCowboy

TC, do you remember my old name? Well....we are back to square one and my tummy is turning all over again!!! Sheesh! These libs have no shame.


304 posted on 11/10/2004 9:40:28 PM PST by MistyCA (Sign the Form 180, Kerry!)
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To: mykdsmom

I think Dr. John just spat on the Vets again. And on Veteran's Day Eve, too. What a POS.


305 posted on 11/10/2004 9:42:50 PM PST by Rastus
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To: MistyCA
LOL!

Yeah, if I remember correctly, I got tired of trying to address you as "MSIT" and started calling you "Misty".

I alternate between stomach turning and blood boiling.

306 posted on 11/10/2004 9:44:43 PM PST by TexasCowboy (Texan by birth, citizen of Jesusland by the Grace of God)
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To: RaceBannon

Sometime, circa 1973, Camp Lejeune, N.C. I have a vague memory of a "Base" directive being released advising the entire Camp Lejeune military population on "Uniform Etiquet" while on leave, stateside, or anytime away from a military oriented cities. IE: Fayetteville(sp?) & Jacksonville, NC were sighted as military oriented cities & NY or Boston as not.

Uniforms were to be worn while on duty, civilian clothes were recommended for all off duty activities.

I don't remember the exact wording except that it did reference the current "anti-war civilian political climate" as being hostile enough to warrant specific notification and a "heads-up" to all armed forces personnel.

Either I'm dreaming and my memory is in dream mode or CMC thought things were exciting enough to warrant a printed directive!

Anyone else remember it? Sometime fall of '73.


307 posted on 11/10/2004 9:45:18 PM PST by JoeSixPack1 (Typing incoherently on FR since May '98.)
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To: dcwusmc; Chieftain; RaceBannon

Happy Birthday brothers!

And Welcome Home! :-]

Semper Fi,
Kelly


308 posted on 11/10/2004 9:45:35 PM PST by kellynla (U.S.M.C. 1st Battalion,5th Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Div. Viet Nam 69&70 Semper Fi)
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To: marmar

And I wasn't actually at that love-in on the first liberty after boot camp, but someone told me we had a good time.


309 posted on 11/10/2004 9:46:16 PM PST by TexasCowboy (Texan by birth, citizen of Jesusland by the Grace of God)
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To: MistyCA

I'm so sorry for your loss...
I'm so sorry...
My brother is still with me...
Despite all he has been through...
He's my "Rock"....
God Bless you Misty...
and thanks for all you do...
Ms.B


310 posted on 11/10/2004 9:46:20 PM PST by MS.BEHAVIN (Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds. Re-elect G.W.Bush)
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To: RaceBannon

I guess this is where faith comes in. I just have to believe that what goes around comes around and that somehow the playing field is going to level out against the liberal scum and truth will prevail.


311 posted on 11/10/2004 9:48:33 PM PST by MistyCA (Sign the Form 180, Kerry!)
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To: mykdsmom
Not even going to read the other replies...

I was personally spit on ( spat on ? ) in Kansas City International Airport.. 1972.. while on prisoner escort to Leavenworth..
I was armed at the time..
It took all my self-control, and some restraint by my freinds, to keep from slapping the "dog $**t" out of her..
Luckily, she "spit and split", getting out of my reach as soon as she had completed her "act of political conscience", or whatever she called it..

This isn't something that "happened to a freind of a freind" who knew somebody..
It happened to ME.. I "experienced" it..

It is NO URBAN MYTH...

And Liberals can Kiss My &$$...

312 posted on 11/10/2004 9:48:37 PM PST by Drammach (Freedom; not just a job, it's an adventure..)
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To: TexasCowboy

Then you can't be accused of winning the prize.....but was it worth it for the winner? I wonder....


313 posted on 11/10/2004 9:49:49 PM PST by marmar (Faith is a beautiful thing.....)
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To: Drammach

I'm so very sorry that happpened to you...
Ms.B


314 posted on 11/10/2004 9:52:27 PM PST by MS.BEHAVIN (Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds. Re-elect G.W.Bush)
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To: TexasCowboy

Yup! You are responsible for my name! LOL!

BTW...hoping Faith is doing well! :)


315 posted on 11/10/2004 9:54:25 PM PST by MistyCA (Sign the Form 180, Kerry!)
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To: RaceBannon; mykdsmom; Mudboy Slim; Landru; BraveMan; MeekOneGOP; 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub; ...
What a coincidence, this article just in time for Veterans Day...BTW, this guy has a book on Urban Legends. How do I know?
Because I bought the s0nofabitc#.
Trust me, it will be in the trash can in the morning.


PING:
"The presidential campaign featured the resurgence of a myth from the early 1990s. That myth is that soldiers returning from Vietnam were spit upon by citizens or war protesters. That claim has been used to turn honest differences of opinion about the war into toxic indictments."
~Dr. John Llewellyn
Phone number-(336) 759-7229 email address: llewelly@wfu.edu

Hey Dr. John Llewellyn, over here, ya jackass:

COMPASSIONATE LIBERALS: UPDATE (antiwar protestor spits on Iraq war vet)

316 posted on 11/10/2004 9:55:22 PM PST by FBD (Democrats have never learned from the second or third or fifth kick of a mule. - Zell Miller)
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To: mykdsmom

It seems the intellectuals haven't changed much since Vietnam.


317 posted on 11/10/2004 9:55:26 PM PST by Blue Scourge (Off I go into the Wild Blue Yonder...)
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To: marmar
"but was it worth it for the winner?"

I was told that there were several winners that night and everyone went home with a smile on her face.

318 posted on 11/10/2004 9:57:14 PM PST by TexasCowboy (Texan by birth, citizen of Jesusland by the Grace of God)
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To: MistyCA
"BTW...hoping Faith is doing well! :)"

Thanks, Misty.

Faith went through the blood cleansing procedure and she's on medication for her low blood pressure which appears to be the culprit instead of her MS.

We had some photos taken together while I was there.
As soon as she gets them to me, I'll post an update.

319 posted on 11/10/2004 9:59:43 PM PST by TexasCowboy (Texan by birth, citizen of Jesusland by the Grace of God)
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To: TexasCowboy
Are you sure it wasn't an Urban Legend????????? Makes one wonder???????
320 posted on 11/10/2004 10:00:09 PM PST by marmar (Faith is a beautiful thing.....)
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