The Crisis of Legitimacy: America and the World

The Australian ^ | November 10, 2004 | Robert Kagan

[quidnunc]

"What kind of world order do we want?" asked Joschka Fischer, Germany's Foreign Minister, on the eve of the US invasion of Iraq in March 2003. That this question remains on the minds of many Europeans is a telling sign of the differences that separate the two sides of the Atlantic - because most Americans have not pondered the question of world order since the war.

They will have to. The great trans-Atlantic debate over Iraq was rooted in deep disagreement over world order. Yes, Americans and Europeans debated whether Saddam Hussein posed a serious threat and whether war was the right way to deal with it. A solid majority of Americans answered yes to both questions, while even larger majorities of Europeans answered no.

Yet these disagreements reflected more than just differing tactical and analytical assessments of the situation in Iraq. As Dominique de Villepin, France's Foreign Minister, put it, the struggle was less about Iraq than it was between "two visions of the world". The differences over Iraq were not only about policy. They were also about first principles.

Opinion polls taken before, during, and after the war show two peoples living on separate strategic and ideological planets. Whereas more than 80 per cent of Americans believe that war can sometimes achieve justice, less than half of Europeans agree. Americans and Europeans disagree about the role of international law and international institutions, and about the nebulous but critical question of what confers legitimacy on international action.

These diverging world views predate the Iraq war and the presidency of George W. Bush, although both may have deepened and hardened the trans-Atlantic rift into an enduring feature of the international landscape.

-snip-

[quidnunc]

This is an edited extract from the 21st John Bonython Lecture in Melbourne last night. Read the full address at: http://www.cis.org.au/Events/JBL/JBL04.htm

[madvlad]

The 1600-ln gorilla will out.

Therefore, it seems the only 2 options available to
the Euroweenies are follow or get out of the way.

MV

[dirtboy]

Whereas more than 80 per cent of Americans believe that war can sometimes achieve justice, less than half of Europeans agree.

Amazing. The ONLY reason the vast majority of Euro-weenies live in freedom is PRECISELY because America went to war to free their sorry asses! And now they've forgotten.

Screw 'em. We should call Putin and tell him he can have Europe after all. Just give us six months to clear our bases out, and leave Poland, England and Italy alone. He can have the rest, so Europeans can re-learn what tyranny is.

[Reynolds]

No THAT was a happy thought. Thanks!

[anonymoussierra]

""What kind of world order do we want?" Strong that is good!!!thank you

[Capodsitrias]

Joschka Fischer the former Terrorist? Ah, youthful indiscretion!

[rudypoot]

Why is it that the default answer to any question is whatever the euros think? (ie Kyoto = good, Iraq war = bad)Is it possible that these arrogant peons could think that it is they who are wrong?

[95 Bravo]

If the asleep-at-the-switch Socialist Euroweenies don't wake up, they'll be having this debate with the Islamo-
Fascist hordes as they overrun the continent. But it will be a very short and violent conversation. Radical Islam ACTS while Europe TALKS.
And, when they come screaming for us to save their bacon- AGAIN- we'll probably do it.
Amazing.

[Mi-kha-el]

What are the French doing in the Ivory Coast then? Sharing candies?

[anonymoussierra]

Thank you

[nonomous]

Kagan is probably the best known contemporary western war-historian, but he errors here by assuming the leaders of socialist-Europe are relevant.

Americans are more concerned with the economic challenges of our era, and those come from China and India. The military problems that get much of the press are only reports on our efforts to referee the economic playing field. The key is the economic game, not the military. On that playing field, Europe is a laggard and can be expected to cease to be a player of any importance within 50 years.

Kagan says Europeans doubt us and the US must address this. I'd reverse this. The Americans doubt socialist Europe is relevant and the Europeans need to address this.

[anonymoussierra]

"If the asleep-at-the-switch Socialist Euroweenies don't wake up, they'll be having this debate with the Islamo-
Fascist hordes as they overrun the continent. But it will be a very short and violent conversation. Radical Islam ACTS while Europe TALKS.
And, when they come screaming for us to save their bacon- AGAIN- we'll probably do it.
Amazing."Thank you that is good what you write! Europa is big like America country my country like America comunist persons do not like strong!!!thank you

[TChris]

Well said. I suppose their schools have done an even worse job of rewriting history so that future generations could forget so quickly. Do these people really wish they all spoke German?

[dooley]

More than half of Europeans believe war can NEVER be a just way to settle a conflict...

Yet more than half of Europeans also believe Arafat is a "hero."

So war that involves armed soldiers from one nation targeting armed soldiers from another nation is always unjust.

But a "warrior" who orders militants to target unarmed civilians--many of whom are children--is a "hero."

My stomach churns.

[Billthedrill]

A wonderful article, thanks for posting. I agree with nearly every one of Kagan's points.

I do have one quibble, and that is the implication that the U.S. has been slow to appreciate its "unipolar predicament." The real question was what to do about it, and the answer that past administrations gave was to hide that predicament by subordinating the unipolarity to the dictates of the UN and other extranational organizations. It was a rough and ready solution but only served to delay the crisis.

The problem was that those organizations possessed neither the checks and balances nor the accountability necessary to be the germ of a world government. Certain of its members discovered this and worked to use them to their own national advantages, depending on the continued subordination of U.S. national interests in order to effect a means of power quite outside the original intention of those organizations. The maneuverings on the part of the Soviet bloc and the Arab League to create third-world voting blocs were a case in point. More recently the outright bribery by Saddam Hussein of many key UN members highlighted its inadequacies in terms of self-discipline and open accounting.

The implication that Bush has discarded these organizations is a false one. In fact, many conservatives in the U.S. feel that he spent far too long - 14 months -attempting to work within their limitations, and that the delay cost us militarily when the time to intervene finally did come around.

But the unipolar predicament may not be an entirely bad thing. That the highly imperfect world order depended on the deliberate submission of the hegemon was another of its weaknesses besides corruptibility. It was also the safety mechanism that prevented that corruptibility from ruining the system. The corruption of that system is now openly manifest and it must now reform or die, but at least it has a chance to do so. I am not optimistic that it will. That may or may not be a bad thing.

[mojito]

Interesting article, but I disagree fundamentally with Kagan's central premise: that the European states are interested in defending the principles of liberal democracy.
The source of the rift is just that. The United States will defend liberal democracy, whereas the Europeans are busy trying to erect a profoundly illiberal superstate, whose recompense to it's subjects for renouncing their rights as citizens is a fluffy and ultimately untenable promise of welfare state hedonism for generations unending. It is the perfect recipe of shrill irresponsibility, and we should expect more, not less of it, as time goes by, until Europe, like a latter-day Byzantium, is ingested by its unassimilated Muslim hordes.

[95 Bravo]

We'll be calling that half of Europeans "victims" one day, as the terrorists attack. Madrid, 3/11, ring a bell? This is a war of civilizations- Western civilization versus Muslim fanatic lunatics who want to turn back the clock to the 10th century. No one gets to sit this one out, if they want to survive. Europe's greatest cultures are already at risk and they can't even see it, let alone deal with it. They'll learn- the hard way.
OK, rant over.

[PeterFinn]

"What kind of world order do we want?" asked Joschka Fischer, Germany's Foreign Minister


Gee, didn't another German Foreign Minister say almost EXACTLY these same words in 1939?

[Tolik]

Robert Kagan:

Out of nervousness about unipolarity, they [Europeans] might underestimate the dangers of a multipolar system in which non-liberal and non-democratic powers would come to outweigh Europe. Out of passion for the international legal order, they might forget the other liberal principles that have made postmodern Europe what it is today.

Europeans might succeed in debilitating the US this way. But since they have no intention of supplementing its power with their own, in doing so they would only succeed in weakening the overall power that the liberal democratic world can wield in its defence -- and in defence of liberalism itself.

Right now, many Europeans are betting that the risks posed by the "axis of evil", from terrorism to tyrants, will never be as great as the risk posed by the American leviathan unbound. Perhaps it is in the nature of a postmodern Europe to make such a judgment.

But now may be the time for the wisest heads in Europe, including those living in the birthplace of Pascal, to ask themselves what will result if that wager proves wrong.

Interesting!

This ping list is not author-specific for articles I'd like to share. Some for perfect moral clarity, some for provocative thoughts; or simply interesting articles I'd hate to miss myself. (I don't have to agree with the author 100% to feel the need to share an article.) I will try not to abuse the ping list and not to annoy you too much, but on some days there is more of good stuff that is worthy attention. I keep separate PING lists for my favorite authors Victor Davis Hanson, Lee Harris, David Warren, Orson Scott Card. You are welcome in or out, just freepmail me (and note which PING list you are talking about).

[MEG33]

I shudder to contemplate the thought and as Europe has depended on Great Britain, Canada, Australia, and the United States to rescue them twice..they are betting on Russia this time?..Who will save them this time?