Girl Hiding In Leaf Pile Dies After Father Parks Car On Top Of Her

WFTV.com ^ | 11/4/2004 | AP

[TChris]

METHUEN, Mass. -- A 10-year-old girl was killed when her father parked his truck in a pile of leaves in which she and a friend were hiding, the family said. The other girl was seriously injured.

Family members said 36-year-old construction worker James Gravel did not know he had run over the girls until he got out and heard daughter Natalie calling him.

"She said, 'Daddy, I can't breathe,"' said Gravel's sister, Jennifer Gravel.

Natalie died at a hospital of head and chest injuries. Eight-year-old Meredith Reid was in critical condition Thursday.

Police said no charges were planned.

Gravel's two other children, ages 11 and 7, were in the truck at the time.

[beezdotcom]

If you have no reason to drive over that box, pile of leaves,

Except that I can think of reasons. I've delineated them. I've done them.

If the story had been "child empties toybox, hides inside, suffocates", everyone would be screaming for the head of the parents who didn't put a padlock on the toybox. It's always easier to armchair quarterback these things. It's like the people who fault Bush, saying that he obviously should have been able to figure out the hijackers would be crashing planes into buildings - heck, any idiot would have seen that coming, right?

[beezdotcom]

you're reading an awful lot into it

ROTFL!! And YOU'RE NOT????????

You people are amazing. You don't know what the guy was doing, you don't know what he was thinking - but you sure as heck PRESUME to know. You don't know where the girls were 30 seconds earlier, you don't know who was in charge of them at the time, you don't know what the dad had been told, you don't know his purpose for parking there, you don't know what activities he was engaged in, you don't know how many leaves were covering anything or anything - but you PRESUME to know.

You would rather compound his agony by readily assuming his fault, without knowing ANY of the details. What a Pharisee.

[cantfindagoodscreenname]

Maybe I'll post a photo! :-) Of course, then we'll have to get into the definition of what the meaning of "big" is, lol. Here in New England, it's common for leaves to pile up naturally against curbs in the street. I remember huge piles of leaves in the streets in the city I grew up in. I never thought twice about driving up over them to park my car. I also didn't know until today about the fire hazard.

[NFOShekky]

We don't know all the facts here but my point is that you HAVE to consider things like this. If you have a reason to drive into a large pile of leaves in a residential neighborhood like this, you have a duty to get out of your car or truck and make sure that no one or nothing is in it! Its not only common sense but in a case like this, it is the law.

[camle]

pharisee?

i'm not reading anything that isn't implicit in the article. the kids were hiding in eht leaves. that means that there had to be enough leaves for them to hide in. and since there were two kids about 10, this means that the leaf pile had to be significant - otherwise he would have seen them. I'm talking at least a foot high and five to seven feet around.

a significant size pile of leaves would not all be compressed by the truck (only the wheels), and it is not a stretch to think that some of those leaves would have contacted the catalytic converter (which gets very hot) and or other hot parts of the truck and catch fire.

a significant pile of leaves can hide more than a child,. it can hide rocks, objects and/or other things that might damage the vehicle. for these two reasons alone parking in a pile of leaves isn't the brightest thing the guy could have done.

then he ran the kids over. didn't he feel a bump? a ten year old child might not be huge, but running one over would certainly cause the truck to react. didn't he stop to think that he might have done something wrong? He only knew something was wrong when the child cried "I can't breathe".

this is clear from the article and does not require any leap of faith regarding fences, driveways, etc. the guy was negligent.

you don't drive through mudpuddles because you can't tell if there is a pothole beneath the surface of the water. you don't drive through piles of leaves because there might be aorkc (or children) beneath them.

that said, can we agree to give it a rest?

[beezdotcom]

If you have a reason to drive into a large pile of leaves in a residential neighborhood like this

Ah. So, tell me all about the urban or rural qualities of Methuen, Massachusetts, then. Tell me exactly how large was this pile of leaves. How large are his children. Tell me the specific law that this father violated, and how remiss the locals were in not charging him for violating it, and how much more ignorant they must be than you.

I don't have any problem with the general statement that "doing stupid things can be dangerous". I have a lot bigger problem with the statements that "obviously, this father was acting stupidly", when there are so few hard facts and I can think of so many scenarios where he wouldn't be at fault.

[Otta B Sleepin]

Parking on top of a bunch of leaves? there's something wrong with this situation

Our house is set back in the woods, and the wind fills our driveway with leaves constantly. I have no doubt that such a tragedy could happen accidentally.

May the Lord strengthen and comfort this man and his family.

[myrabach]

Oh my, that is terrible! I know how fast the vehicle can ge engulfed in flames... so scary. Praise the Lord they were able to get him out of the car.

As a later poster suggested keeping a sharp knife, I travel too much to consider that option, however, one in the glove box would not be such a bad idea. My grandchildren ride with me all the time, some still in car seats.

[Darnright]

>I have lots of leaves, and I had little children who used to love to play in them. <

I used to play in leaves, with my friends, when I was a kid. We could easily bury ourselves in them. Looking back, we're very lucky we never got smushed.

That poor man.

[najida]

How heartbreaking! Prayers going up and out for the family.

[cantfindagoodscreenname]

I would like to hear about the results from your test...

I have the photo...I just went out and took it, but I don't have a website do to the hosting. Should I email it to you or do you or anyone else on the thread have a place to put the photo for me?

Something really weird happened after I took the photo. Immediately after I walked in the house with my kids, the oil truck pulled right up by the pile of leaves and backed right up to it. Wow!

By the way, the kids in my pile of leaves are 8 and 12 years old.

[diamond6]

I HATE HATE HATE hearing about these types of tragedies. How does a parent go on after this, I don't know if I could.

Being a parent is so wondreful and rewarding, yet scary at the same time, so many dangerous things can happen when you turn your back for just a second. You just have to be alert and think ahead 24/7. The poor man and his family, my heart just goes out to him, and to happen right before the holidays. It just makes me sick and want to cry.

[Protagoras]

that said, can we agree to give it a rest?

Of course,,Once you make your point, give it a rest. LOL

It must be tiring defending ones mistakes instead of just admitting them and moving on.

[beezdotcom]

i'm not reading anything that isn't implicit in the article

This statement stands on its own. You should be an activist judge; you'll find LOTS of new things in the Constitution.

this means that the leaf pile had to be significant - otherwise he would have seen them. I'm talking at least a foot high and five to seven feet around.

That's a pretty small pile. During this time of year in my yard, a week of no raking will result in vast expanses that you wade through. I'm not advocating tear-assing around the yard without some knowledge of what you might be running over - but you have absolutely no idea what his yard is like, or whether he proceeded with wanton ignorance or merely faulty knowledge. There IS a difference. If he had been told the kids were in the house, for example, and if he had no expectation of anyone else being in the yard, it may have been perfectly reasonable to drive into the yard.

But, you're only willing to consider unprinted "facts" that agree with YOUR assumptions. I guess the fact he's not being charged with negligence is SOLELY a move of compassion by law enforcement, and has nothing to do with the possibility that he might not be guilty of anything. How wonderful of you to be able to read everyone's minds.

then he ran the kids over. didn't he feel a bump?

Not everybody has a glass-smooth yard like you. Mine has more the consistency of a potters field.

this is clear from the article and does not require any leap of faith regarding fences, driveways, etc. the guy was negligent.

Just as clear as the right to abortion or the separation of church and state is in the Constitution.

that said, can we agree to give it a rest?

No. Because if I'm ever the victim of assumptions based on the thinnest veneer of information, I'd want somebody to hold the wolves at bay until the full story came out. But that's just me, I guess.

[camle]

there is no mistake on my part, friend. the guy was negligent if not stupid. you just don't do what he did. for a lot of common sense reasons.

i understand the need to rationalize in the father's grief that this was a terrible accident - and it was. but it was preventable, which compounds the sadness.

I was crippled for life way back in 1978. because the woman who hit me was elderly everybody felt sorry for her. I did to, but it hasn't erased her negligence - I still feel pain when I stand and walk. all she did was mistake the gas pedal for the brake - lots of people do that. I continue to pay the price.

[TChris]

*Rolling Eyes*

OK, you two. Are we going to have to separate you? ;-)

[Protagoras]

That explains a lot.

Accidents happen. Life is a bitch.

The penalty for a simple, and I do mean simple, mistake, is not the death of your daughter from which you will never recover and a scolding from some old bitter person who has suffered a similar mistake.

Your comments were, and are, pitiful.

[beezdotcom]

I was crippled for life way back in 1978. because the woman who hit me was elderly everybody felt sorry for her.

Ah. You didn't warn us you brought your own baggage.

Just remember, her negligence doesn't establish his negligence. You know the facts in her case. You don't know the facts in his case. Moreover, you're unwilling to consider any situation that would remove the blame from him. Would you have felt any differently about this woman, if, instead of stepping on the wrong pedal, she had a stuck accelerator?

[camle]

i don't think that it's a thin veneer to assume that when you run somebody or something over that you feel a bump. Methuen is a well-to-do boston suburb and i hardly think that there are too many "potter's field" driveways around.

and not parking on a big pile of leaves is like looking both ways when you cross the street. should be common sense. especially here in the northeast where we get leaves at this time of year.

an activist judge? aw now that hurts! I didnt' glean anything out of that story like some other folks did like about fences, garagae, etc..

but you said something about tear-assing around in the yard without knowing who or what was about? something like that. how do you know that that isn't what he was doing?

were the kids in the truck in the cab or in the bed? how many people do you see riding around with their kids in the back of their open pickup? is it fun? you betcha! is it safe? no way in heck. A friend of mine will never walk again because he fell out of the back of an open pickup. high school wrestling star with a scholarship when that happened too.

but i wish i wish i wish i had a glass smooth yard!

[Protagoras]

There must, simply must, be blame. It can't just happen, there has to be someone to blame.

And we must, simply must, pile on a man who is suffering unimaginable recriminations. Some people would kill themselves over this, but we must scold them and namecall them before they do.