Posted on 10/13/2004 12:54:03 AM PDT by politicket
Edited on 10/13/2004 1:07:27 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
Excerpt:
Mystery Surrounds Kerry's Navy Discharge
BY THOMAS LIPSCOMB - Special to the Sun
October 13, 2004
URL: http://www.nysun.com/article/3107
An official Navy document on Senator Kerry's campaign Web site listed as Mr. Kerry's "Honorable Discharge from the Reserves" opens a door on a well kept secret about his military service.
The document is a form cover letter in the name of the Carter administration's secretary of the Navy, W. Graham Claytor. It describes Mr. Kerry's discharge as being subsequent to the review of "a board of officers." This in it self is unusual. There is nothing about an ordinary honorable discharge action in the Navy that requires a review by a board of officers.
According to the secretary of the Navy's document, the "authority of reference" this board was using in considering Mr. Kerry's record was "Title 10, U.S. Code Section 1162 and 1163. "This section refers to the grounds for involuntary separation from the service. What was being reviewed, then, was Mr. Kerry's involuntary separation from the service. And it couldn't have been an honorable discharge, or there would have been no point in any review at all. The review was likely held to improve Mr. Kerry's status of discharge from a less than honorable discharge to an honorable discharge.
A Kerry campaign spokesman, David Wade, was asked whether Mr. Kerry had ever been a victim of an attempt to deny him an honorable discharge. There has been no response to that inquiry.
The document is dated February 16, 1978. But Mr. Kerry's military commitment began with his six-year enlistment contract with the Navy on February 18, 1966. His commitment should have terminated in 1972. It is highly unlikely that either the man who at that time was a Vietnam Veterans Against the War leader, John Kerry, requested or the Navy accepted an additional six year reserve commitment. And the Claytor document indicates proceedings to reverse a less than honorable discharge that took place sometime prior to February 1978.
The most routine time for Mr. Kerry's discharge would have been at the end of his six-year obligation, in 1972. But how was it most likely to have come about?
The question for me would be, if Kerry didn't receive a less than honorable discharge, why?...He clearly engaged in treasonous behavior and speech during war time and while he was still enlisted.
We should check the dates.
If his medals were revoked due to some less than honorable release/discharge from service, when did he "throw his medals" over the fence?
Because perhaps this crude show of bravado was just an act and he no longer had any medals to toss away at that point.
Not only would this be a despicable, lying charade, but it also would be a premeditated excuse to cover his physical lack of medals.
When asked "where are your medals?" he would reply, "I threw them away," when in reality they were taken from him as a penalty.
Where are those supposed "medals and ribbons" he haltingly stammered about tossing away? Who picked them up off the ground? Or were they just some dime-store ribbons and bows he tossed for show and cover because the real ones had been taken from him?
In measuring how this would negatively impact Kerry's campaign, I suppose it would paint him to be a bigger phony than we ever thought possible.
You would be correct.. we resign our commissions and/or are released from service. Since I haven't looked for my DD214 (from active duty) in years, and am still officially "IRR", I'm not sure what my release would look like (probably a board letter). Since I hit 24 years, I should be seeing something in the mail soon.
SFS
You bring up a good point.
The part that does not make sense to me is that George Bush was Honorably Discharged in 1973, and then like everyone else leaving the Reserves, was transfered to inactive/standby.
- Juxtaposed to -
John Kerry did not receive his discharge until his inactive/standby status expired.
"if Kerry didn't receive a less than honorable discharge, why?..."
Exactly -- that is precisely why this is believable to begin with.
I'd stay away from this. I spent 26 years in Naval Reserve on active duty as Full Time Support. Two tour on Commander Naval Reserve Force. [1980-86 and 1989-92]. Know a ‘little’ about reserve administration [enough to get me in trouble – was Aviation Electronics Technician]
Occasionally people confuse enlisted 'contracts' and officer commissions.
Why would a board be reviewing John Kerry’s record. To determine whether the Naval Reserve wants to keep him in the Standby Reserve-Inactive (USNR-S2). John Kerry was transferred to Standby Reserve-Inactive (USNR-S1) when released from active duty [Why when he had reserve obligation to drill – probably waived]. After his 6 years 'obligated' service was up, he did not resign his commission. He would have been transferred to S2 status. After 3 years his record should have been periodically reviewed to determine whether the Navy had any reason to retain him. It appears in FEB 1978 the board decided to honorably discharge him rather than keep him in an S2 status.
From: http://www.bupers.navy.mil/pers9/pers91/IDTAT.htm
Q: Is there a minimum participation requirement to maintain my commission?
A: Yes. Records are routinely screened to ensure members are actively participating in the Reserve program. If a member's record indicates they are not participating, they will be notified by letter that they are being considered for removal from Ready Reserve or Standby Reserve-Active (USNR-S1) status. Based on the member's response, they may be transferred to Standby Reserve-Inactive (USNR-S2) status or allowed to remain in the Ready Reserve. Personnel remaining in the Ready Reserve may participate by completing correspondence courses or by drilling. Officers transferred to Standby Reserve-Inactive (USNR-S2) status may remain in that status for up to 3 years before they are screened for discharge.
Note: They are 'SCREENED'. And the US code that replaces 1162 does talk about involuntary separation and the officers rights. But not the way the article insinuates. US Code 12681 was updated because of drawdown and mandatory transition assistance regulations. John Kerry was involuntarily separated IAW 1162 and 1163 because he did not resign his commission.
Reference: [1162 & 1163] of Title 10 was replaced on 5 OCT 1994 by section 12681. Nothing in this code leads me to believe this had anything to do with changing less than honorable to honorable discharges.
http://uscode.house.gov/uscode-cgi/fastweb.exe?getdoc+uscview+t09t12+3351+39++%28military%20-%20discharge%20of%20reserve%20officers%29%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20
Like I said, I’d stay away from this unless someone shows you a dishonorable discharge certificate.
Retired Navy Senior Chief
RNC / BC 04 member # 186675671
I have my final DD214 in the same location as with other super-important documents: birth certificate/ baptism/ marriage cert/ etc. This is one document that you don't just misplace.
#####
A man who took Super 8 movies of his Vietnam tour would not lose his DD214 unless he wanted to! End of argument!
They were just discussing this on WLW radio here in Cincy. Also telling people that there are 32 pages of his record that he won't release.
I appreciate what you're saying and everything requires caution - but here's the crux of the matter.
John Forbes Kerry has REFUSED to sign Form 180 and in doing so, he opens himself up to all sorts of scrutiny because the obvious questions are WHY? and WHAT IS HE HIDING?
Thats the answer I was looking for.
Thanks Senior Chief!
I did all my time active duty, and had no involvement with the reserves whatsoever. What you said makes perfect sense to me.
Thanks
ping to post #448...
So this story has no legs after all? d'oh.
"But when a dishonorable discharge is issued, all pay benefits, and allowances, and all medals and honors are revoked as well."
Does that mean he had to give them back, or simply not display them?
And does this hold true for other categories besides DD?
Someone must know if Kerry was required to return his medals as a result of a less-than-honorable discharge.
You're correct, however, that it would be a duplicitous move either way.
Just posted in Breaking:
Navy Stripped Kerry of his Security Clearance.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1243912/posts
He also doesn't remember what year he ran the Boston Marathon or what his time was, or what the biggest buck he ever begged was. Details are for the lower classes, I guess.
Until he does, the truth about his service is in question.
Could you please tell us what your reserve obligation entailed, regarding showing up for duty somewhere.
If Kerry's obligation was for 3 years active and 3 years reserve, his duty might have been similar to yours.
I believe that he did not attend any reserve meetings while he was active with the VVAW and I have yet to read an explanation for why not, especially since the Dem attack on President Bush has been his supposed lack of attendance at meetings in 72/73.
Thanks
Was that block checked, and does your examination mean he was given an honorable discharge? And does that make this story null and void?
BUMP!
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