Flights Grounded Out West?

FOX News ^ | 9/14/04 | NeverGore

[nevergore]

According to Laurie Dhue at the bottom of the hour all flights are grounded at LAX due to a "radio problem"...

[Pylon]

You are right. Ground stop in effect. Arriving traffic is coming in, and commuter flights between LAX and SD and such are still departing as normal. Expected to be resolved soon.

[Joe Hadenuf]

Reporting 600 flight currently in the air, and being affected.

[Brad’s Gramma]

WHAT a mess this is going to be....

[TBall]

I remember a few months back LAX had a power failure. Apparently a bird arced between some wires and then flew away.

[FReepaholic]

...Admin Moderator, if this is a case of LLSS, please pull my post....

I'll take a case of Lois Lane's Silky Shorts.

Pull your what?

[kingu]

If there are any inbounds to LAX, they're coming in over the ocean, because the lines out here are completely empty. (LAX approach paths from the east are visible out my window.) Strange not to see the line of planes heading in for the evening rush.

[Joe Hadenuf]

According to LA media, they had it back up momentarily, but then it went down again. We just heard *possibly* another 3 plus hours down time.

[Jeff Chandler]

a "radio problem"...

What's the frequency, Kenneth?

[Joe Hadenuf]

No aircraft on approach from the east. Very strange.

[Jeff Chandler]

San Diego is down also.

Glad I'm driving.

[Joe Hadenuf]

Yeah, usually there are a line of aircraft approaching LAX from the east, all the way from the Colorado river, we see none at this time.

[safisoft]

I was calm and with you until you got to your last line, "This is not that unusual

I remember at least two similar outages in the East at New York Center (located on Long Island). It was bad for delays etc., but certainly manageable. It is not like no one is talking to flights, it is simply that the normal radio process is hampered.

These "high alitude" Centers are geographically located near the airspace they control, but this is not a requirement. In other words, in the case of total failure (this is not a total failure, they have backup power), nearby centers could pick up slack.

Once aircraft descend into thicker air, they are in contact with local controls called "Approach control". At LAX it is "So Cal Approach". "So Cal" is not affected by this, so that means that aircraft below 18,000' anywhere from LA to San Diego are not affected directly. Air traffic is like traffic on the ground however - once things get slowed down it has a ripple effect. So aircraft in the east will likely be affected by this as well to some degrees.

[milford421]

Massive Communications failure......caused by whom?

[AWestCoaster]

And now a few strains of the theme song for Twilight Zone:

Dhue, Dhue, Dhue, Dhue

[Brad’s Gramma]

Loose Lips Sink Ships

[safisoft]

Man oh man! I hope those planes hurry up and get into range of another comm center. They do that don't they?

There are backups. The problem is not a lack of communication so much as a non-normal communication setup which severely hampers the controlers' options and thus departing flights are not allowed to depart until it is resolved.

[milford421]

That's nonsense...don't we already know what this is?

[Joe Hadenuf]

I take that back, we just saw a single jet aircraft on approach to LAX, about 30 miles out. Only one in the past 15 or 20 minutes.

[expatpat]

The procedure with lost communications is for the aircraft to fly the routing that was last given by ATC. (The aircraft is given clearance to fly a given routing to its destination before (or immediately after) take-off.)

[Chemist_Geek]

Interesting thought and if it is a Communication failure what procedure allows you to land planes without Communications?

Well, I'm more familiar with a single airplane's radios going out - the flight continues on its filed flight plan, and colored light signals are shown from the control tower.

I can't imagine all of ATC's radios going out. What a mess that would be.

If it's ATC's radar gone out, then flights would make position reports - there are established procedures used to this day in areas which are not covered by radar, and those procedures would be used in the areas affected by the outage. However, it increases the separation required between airplanes; instead of 29 landings per hour per runway, you might get 12.