Live Thread: CBS Evening News (Dan tells us why we're all wrong)

www.freerepublic.com | September 10, 2004

[Howlin]

Have at it.

******Transcript************

'KEY CHALLENGES TO NATIONAL GUARD DOCUMENTS ANSWERED'
Fri Sep 10 2004 19:03:11 ET

The biggest challenges to the authenticity of the documents featured in the 60 MINUTES segment on President Bush's Texas National Guard service are answered in a report to be broadcast on the CBS EVENING NEWS tonight (6:30-7:00 PM, ET/PT) on the CBS Television Network. The report states that the type style, typewriter and the superscript function critics claim did not exist at the time the memos from President Bush's former Texas National Guard commander were typed were indeed all available. In fact, similar raised "th" superscripts have been found on other National Guard documents the White House has released from the president's file.

Furthermore, Marcel Mately, the document and handwriting expert used to authenticate the documents for CBS News and 60 MINUTES, asserts that copies of the memos critics are examining have been degraded by reproduction though photocopying, computer scanning and faxing and are not reliable representations of the memos.

A transcript is attached:

BUSH DOCUMENTS

EVENING NEWS WITH DAN RATHER

9-10-04

Rather Lead In: There were attacks today on the CBS News "60 Minutes" report this week raising new questions about President Bush's Vietnam-era time in the Texas Air National Guard. The questions raised by our report include:

--Did a wealthy Texas oilman-friend of the Bush family use his influence with the speaker of the Texas House of Representatives .. to get George W. Bush a coveted slot in the National Guard .. keeping him out of the draft and any probable service IN Vietnam?

--Did Lieutenant Bush refuse a direct order from his commanding officer?

--Was Lieutenant. Bush suspended for failure to perform up to standards?

--Did Lieutenant Bush ever take a physical he was required and ordered to take? If not, why not?

--And did Lieutenant Bush, in fact, complete his commitment to the Guard?

These questions grew out of new witnesses and new evidence -- including documents written by Lieutenant Bush's squadron commander.

Today, on the internet and elsewhere, some people -- including many who are partisan political operatives -- concentrated not on the key questions the overall story raised but on the documents that were part of the support of the story.

They alleged the documents are FAKE.

Rather: MANY OF THOSE RAISING QUESTIONS ABOUT THE CBS DOCUMENTS HAVE FOCUSED ON SOMETHING CALLED SUPERSCRIPT... A KEY THAT AUTOMATICALLY TYPES A RAISED "TH". CRITICS CLAIM TYPEWRITERS DIDN'T HAVE THAT ABILITY IN THE 70S. BUT SOME MODELS DID....IN FACT, OTHER BUSH MILITARY RECORDS ALREADY OFFICIALLY RELEASED BY THE WHITE HOUSE ITSELF SHOW THE SAME SUPERSCRIPT.

HERE'S ONE..... FROM 1968.

SOME ANALYSTS OUTSIDE CBS SAY THEY BELIEVE THE TYPEFACE ON THESE MEMOS IS NEW TIMES ROMAN.... WHICH THEY CLAIM WAS NOT AVAILABLE IN THE 1970S.

BUT THE OWNER OF THE COMPANY THAT DISTRIBUTES THIS TYPING STYLE.... SAYS IT HAS BEEN AVAILABE SINCE 1931. DOCUMENT AND HANDWRITING EXAMINER MARCEL MATLEY ANALYZED THE DOCUMENTS FOR CBS NEWS.

HE SAYS HE BELIEVES THEY ARE REAL...BUT IS CONCERNED ABOUT EXACTLY WHAT IS BEING EXAMINED BY SOME OF THE PEOPLE QUESTIONING THE DOCUMENTS....BECAUSE DETIORATION OCCURS EACH TIME A DOCUMENT IS REPRODUCED.....AND THE DOCUMENTS BEING ANALYZED OUTSIDE OF CBS HAVEBEEN PHOTOCOPIED, FAXED, SCANNED AND DOWNLOADED.... AND ARE FAR REMOVED FROM THE DOCUMENTS CBS STARTED WITH WHICH WERE ALSO PHOTOCOPIES.

DOCUMENT AND HANDWRITING EXAMINER MARCEL MATLEY DID THIS INTERVIEW WITH US PRIOR TO THE 60 MINUTES BROADCAST.

HE LOOKED AT THE DOCUMENTS AND THE SIGNATURES OF COLONEL JERRY KILLIAN.... COMPARING KNOWN DOCUMENTS WITH THE COLONEL'S SIGNATURE ON THE NEWSLY DISCOVERED ONES.

Matley: "WE LOOK BASICALLY AT WHAT'S CALLED SIGNIFICANT OR INSIGNIFICANT FEATURES TO DETERMINE WHETHER IT'S THE SAME PERSON OR NOT. I HAVE NO PROBLEM IDENTIFYING THEM.

I WOULD SAY BASED ON OUR AVAILABLE HANDWRITING EVIDENCE, YES. THIS IS THE SAME PERSON."

Rather: MATLEY FINDS THE SIGNAT'URES TO BE SOME OF THE MOST COMPELLING EVIDENCE...WE TALKED TO HIM AGAIN TODAY BY SATELLITE.

Matley "SINCE IT IS REPRESENTED THAT SOME OF THEM ARE DEFINITELY HIS... THEN WE CAN CONCLUDE THEY ARE HIS SIGNATURES."

Rather: "ARE YOU SURPRISED THAT QUESTIONS COME ABOUT THESE. WE'RE NOT, BUT I WAS WONDERING IF YOU'RE SURPRISED."

Matley: "I KNEW GOING IN THAT THIS WAS DYNAMITE ONE WAY OR THE OTHER AND I KNEW THAT POTENTIALLY IT WAS FAR MORE POTENTIAL DAMAGE TO ME PROFESSIONALLY THAN BENEFIT ME. AND I KNEW THAT. BUT WE SEEK THE TRUTH. THAT'S WHAT WE DO. YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO PUT YOURSELF OUT. TO SEEK THE TRUTH AND TAKE WHAT COMES FROM IT."

Rather: ROBERT STRONG WAS AN ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICER FOR THE TEXAS AIR NATIONAL GUARD DURING THE VIETNAM YEARS. HE KNEW COL. JERRY KILLIAN, THE MAN CREDITED WITH WRITING THE DOCUMENTS.... AND PAPER WORK... LIKE THESE DOCUMENTS...WAS HIS SPECIALTY. HE IS STANDING BY HIS JUDGEMENT THAT THE DOCUMENTS ARE REAL.

Rather: "WHEN YOU READ THROUGH THESE DOCUMENTS, IS THERE ANY DOUBT IN YOUR MIND THAT THESE ARE GENUINE?"

Strong: "WELL,, THEY ARE COMPATIBLE WITH THE WAY BUSINESS WAS DONE AT THAT TIME. THEY ARE COMPATIBLE WITH THE MAN THAT I REMEMBER JERRY KILLIAN BEING. I DON'T SEE ANYTHING IN THE DOCUMENTS THAT'S DISCORDANT WITH WHAT WERE THE TIMES, WHAT WERE THE SITUATION OR WHAT WERE THE PEOPLE INVOLVED."

Rather: STRONG SAYS THE HIGHLY CHARGED POLITICAL ATMOSPHERE OF THE GUARD AT THE TIME... WAS PERFECTLY REPRESENTED IN THE NEW DOCUMENTS

Strong: "IT VERGED ON OUTRIGHT CORRUPTION IN TERMS OF THE FAVORS THAT WERE DONE, THE POWER THAT WAS TRADED. AND IT WAS UNCONSCIONABLE. FROM A MORAL AND ETHICAL STANDPOINT. IT WAS UNCONSCIONABLE."

Rather: IT IS THE INFORMATION IN THE NEW DOCUMENTS THAT IS MOST COMPELLING FOR PEOPLE FAMILIAR WITH PRESIDENT BUSH'S RECORD IN THE NATIONAL GUARD. AUTHOR JIM MORE HAS WRITTEN TWO BOOKS ON THE SUBJECT.

Rather: "YOU'VE STUDIED PRESIDENT BUSH'S RECORDS FOR 10 YEARS.. ARE THESE DOCUMENTS CONSISTENT WITH THE RECORD AS YOU KNOW IT?"

Moore: "THEY ARE ABSOLUTELY CONSISTENT WITH THE RECORDS AS I KNOW IT."

Rather: "PUT IT IN CONTEXT AND PERSPECTIVE FOR US ... THE STORY AND WHAT WE CALL THE COUNTERATTACK ON THE STORY. WHERE ARE WE RIGHT NOW?

Moore "I THINK WHAT HAS HAPPENED IS SOME INCRIMINATING DOCUMENTS HAVE COME OUT. THE WHITE HOUSE, YOU SHOULD REMEMBER, HAS NOT DISCREDITED THE DOCUMENTS. THEY'RE RELYING ON THE BLOGOSPHERE AND OTHER PEOPLE TO DO THAT. BECAUSE THE WHITE HOUSE PROBABLY KNOWS THESE DOCUMENTS ARE IN FACT REAL."

Rather Tag: The "60 Minutes" report was based NOT solely on the recovered documents .. but on a preponderance of evidence .. including documents that were provided by un-impeachable sources .. and interviews with former officials of the Texas National Guard. If any definitive evidence to the contrary of our story is found, we will report it.

So far, there is none.

[Tempest]

Actually we the evil partisans are just questioning their validity.

[faithincowboys]

Oh, yes. When does Dan get thrown out on his bad hip???

[Yaelle]

Heck, I guess you can send an EMAIL dated 1973 and CBS would have to call it authentic!!!

[governsleastgovernsbest]

Dan Rather is a LIAR! And we "common people" have figured it out!

Yes, but do we support Teresa's health care plan, or are we "complete idiots"?

[NavySEAL F-16]

NBC Nightly News had an FBI trained document expert on with David Gregory. His opinion was that it was a forgery -without any doubt or hestitation. He also said that any trained document expert would come to the same conclusion.

Maybe we ought to call CBS and give him David Gregory's number and the FBI trained guy's name.

Now, will Dan Rather call this guy?

[Cboldt]

NBC Nightly News had an FBI trained document expert on with David Gregory. His opinion was that it was a forgery -without any doubt or hestitation.

This is such an amazing unfolding. Thanks for that report. CBS is hosed, and so are the kool-aid drinkers. Juan Williams has been exposed, probably a score of others.

[ttown]

Ok I was too pissed to gather many facts but here's what I emailed CBS:

I’ve never seen a more irresponsible piece of journalism or response than the one’s seen on CBS this week. You bring on Mr. Barnes that’s the Co-chairman of the elect Kerry campaign with a forever changing story as people die and bring on forged documents a kid could decipher with an author that is also deceased to make brash claims when all you have to do is follow the sequence of events in the released valid documents to show they don’t add up.

It seems the Lt. Col. Jerry Killian family doesn’t believe it either. What about Mr. Barnes daughter Amy is she lying too. 250 men with signed affidavits weren’t enough creditability for you when the swift boat vets had something to say but these documents were? You best name your sources or I don’t think any of us will trust or watch CBS much in the future. If these documents were obtain by the “Freedom of Information Act” then their nothing to hide is there. Your creditability is on the line and were waiting to see who runs this station a democratic hack like Rather or honest news folks. It seems like forging documents should be a crime and I hope the justice department looks into this stations ethics and motives.

[mabelkitty]

I replaced my Times Roman reference to yours from 517.

[talleyman]

Should Dan Rather and CBS News reveal the sources of the Bush memos? http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/lou.dobbs.tonight/

Needs mo' freepin'. But what kind of person would Not want the source revealed, hmmm?

[soozla]

Can someone please locate the thread with info. on Strong????? It's here somewhere, I just know it. Rather's "document expert" has some questionable baggage which was raised her on FR earlier today or last night.....darn, I can't find it though!!!!!!!

[longtermmemmory]

Juan is a MORON and a FOOL. What type of typwriter is the military issued? The most basic type.

Juan should close his mouth and do real research as to what the military had AND THEN INVESTIGATE THE WHY the false story. THINK JUAN!!!!!

Bush has an honorable discharge nothing changes that.

Bush flew a fighter jet, nothing changes that.

Bush volunteered TWICE for air combat duty in viet nam, nothing changes that

Kerry had three superficial wounds in three months and REQUESTED early realease, nothing changes that.

[ClancyJ]

Well, he got it into the national debate, but ol' Dan is finding out that we are not quite as asleep or stupid as he thought. The national debate now is about the documents - the content is totally ignored because it is not valid.

He can be proud of himself, along with Jennings, Brokaw, et al. They are the last of the breed and they are taking out the media with them as they leave. Of course, none of them will be remembered with respect. Isn't that great after years in the living rooms of America?

[Law is not justice but process]

" His document "expert" focused on the signatures."

I refuse to watch Dan Rather so I missed his little show. I have seen side by sides of the signature on the CBS documents and on Bush's Request for Discharge and some evaluations. The Request and the evaluation signatures were identical, The signature on the CBS documents was made by a different person. That is not an arguable point. The K alone was made with completely different pen strokes. In the CBS document the upper and lower diagonal legs of the K were one stroke and ended with the pen looping up lazily. On the Request and evaluations the upper diagonal leg was made in one stroke with the vertical leg of the K and the pen went sharply down at the end of the upper diagonal leg. Look up the link below to see the signatures for yourself.

http://tinypic.com/4l1tx

It is obvious to anyone that the same person did not make both signatures. What in the world was CBS's expert comparing the signature to? If Killian signed the CBS forgeries, then the really big story is that ALL Killian signatures released by the WH are forgeries!

Please tell me what I am missing (and someone who knows how please post that side by side of the two signatures so y'all can see what i am talking about).

[DaveMSmith]

its on tv.. no stream that I know of

[johnb838]

Why in the world wouldn't the scammer have used courier monospace? The lie doesn't surprise me but the stupidity of the forger is unbelievable.

[MOgirl]

Hello,

Here is my prediction: All the alphabets and Old Media papers will circle the wagons over this story. Regardless of facts, credibility, profits, they will come together with a united front. At that point one of two things will happen: 1) United front falls apart because this really is a Clinton created story and the Old Media likes them better than the Idiot French Guy ~ or 2) The New Media (us and others) prove to be stronger and push their backs to the wall. I think it will be really interesting to see this play out....

Glad to be here, MOgirl

[soozla]

WE KNOW THE SOURCE...WATCH HANNITY TONIGHT....AND SOME FREEPERS HAVE BEEN ON THAT ANGLE EARLIER!!!!!!!!!!!

[Cboldt]

Here's the CNN story

LOL. No comment from CNN. Guffaw.

[Semi Civil Servant]

It looks like CBS document wizard Marcel will need to be looking for a new career.

Mime?

[goodnesswins]

Maybe I should email them again....and say.....the "complete idiots" have figured it out! (That Dan Rather is a LIAR!)......LOL.