Posted on 09/10/2004 3:18:38 PM PDT by Howlin
Edited on 09/10/2004 4:53:58 PM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]
Have at it.
******Transcript************
'KEY CHALLENGES TO NATIONAL GUARD DOCUMENTS ANSWERED'
Fri Sep 10 2004 19:03:11 ET
The biggest challenges to the authenticity of the documents featured in the 60 MINUTES segment on President Bush's Texas National Guard service are answered in a report to be broadcast on the CBS EVENING NEWS tonight (6:30-7:00 PM, ET/PT) on the CBS Television Network. The report states that the type style, typewriter and the superscript function critics claim did not exist at the time the memos from President Bush's former Texas National Guard commander were typed were indeed all available. In fact, similar raised "th" superscripts have been found on other National Guard documents the White House has released from the president's file.
Furthermore, Marcel Mately, the document and handwriting expert used to authenticate the documents for CBS News and 60 MINUTES, asserts that copies of the memos critics are examining have been degraded by reproduction though photocopying, computer scanning and faxing and are not reliable representations of the memos.
A transcript is attached:
BUSH DOCUMENTS
EVENING NEWS WITH DAN RATHER
9-10-04
Rather Lead In: There were attacks today on the CBS News "60 Minutes" report this week raising new questions about President Bush's Vietnam-era time in the Texas Air National Guard. The questions raised by our report include:
--Did a wealthy Texas oilman-friend of the Bush family use his influence with the speaker of the Texas House of Representatives .. to get George W. Bush a coveted slot in the National Guard .. keeping him out of the draft and any probable service IN Vietnam?
--Did Lieutenant Bush refuse a direct order from his commanding officer?
--Was Lieutenant. Bush suspended for failure to perform up to standards?
--Did Lieutenant Bush ever take a physical he was required and ordered to take? If not, why not?
--And did Lieutenant Bush, in fact, complete his commitment to the Guard?
These questions grew out of new witnesses and new evidence -- including documents written by Lieutenant Bush's squadron commander.
Today, on the internet and elsewhere, some people -- including many who are partisan political operatives -- concentrated not on the key questions the overall story raised but on the documents that were part of the support of the story.
They alleged the documents are FAKE.
Rather: MANY OF THOSE RAISING QUESTIONS ABOUT THE CBS DOCUMENTS HAVE FOCUSED ON SOMETHING CALLED SUPERSCRIPT... A KEY THAT AUTOMATICALLY TYPES A RAISED "TH". CRITICS CLAIM TYPEWRITERS DIDN'T HAVE THAT ABILITY IN THE 70S. BUT SOME MODELS DID....IN FACT, OTHER BUSH MILITARY RECORDS ALREADY OFFICIALLY RELEASED BY THE WHITE HOUSE ITSELF SHOW THE SAME SUPERSCRIPT.
HERE'S ONE..... FROM 1968.
SOME ANALYSTS OUTSIDE CBS SAY THEY BELIEVE THE TYPEFACE ON THESE MEMOS IS NEW TIMES ROMAN.... WHICH THEY CLAIM WAS NOT AVAILABLE IN THE 1970S.
BUT THE OWNER OF THE COMPANY THAT DISTRIBUTES THIS TYPING STYLE.... SAYS IT HAS BEEN AVAILABE SINCE 1931. DOCUMENT AND HANDWRITING EXAMINER MARCEL MATLEY ANALYZED THE DOCUMENTS FOR CBS NEWS.
HE SAYS HE BELIEVES THEY ARE REAL...BUT IS CONCERNED ABOUT EXACTLY WHAT IS BEING EXAMINED BY SOME OF THE PEOPLE QUESTIONING THE DOCUMENTS....BECAUSE DETIORATION OCCURS EACH TIME A DOCUMENT IS REPRODUCED.....AND THE DOCUMENTS BEING ANALYZED OUTSIDE OF CBS HAVEBEEN PHOTOCOPIED, FAXED, SCANNED AND DOWNLOADED.... AND ARE FAR REMOVED FROM THE DOCUMENTS CBS STARTED WITH WHICH WERE ALSO PHOTOCOPIES.
DOCUMENT AND HANDWRITING EXAMINER MARCEL MATLEY DID THIS INTERVIEW WITH US PRIOR TO THE 60 MINUTES BROADCAST.
HE LOOKED AT THE DOCUMENTS AND THE SIGNATURES OF COLONEL JERRY KILLIAN.... COMPARING KNOWN DOCUMENTS WITH THE COLONEL'S SIGNATURE ON THE NEWSLY DISCOVERED ONES.
Matley: "WE LOOK BASICALLY AT WHAT'S CALLED SIGNIFICANT OR INSIGNIFICANT FEATURES TO DETERMINE WHETHER IT'S THE SAME PERSON OR NOT. I HAVE NO PROBLEM IDENTIFYING THEM.
I WOULD SAY BASED ON OUR AVAILABLE HANDWRITING EVIDENCE, YES. THIS IS THE SAME PERSON."
Rather: MATLEY FINDS THE SIGNAT'URES TO BE SOME OF THE MOST COMPELLING EVIDENCE...WE TALKED TO HIM AGAIN TODAY BY SATELLITE.
Matley "SINCE IT IS REPRESENTED THAT SOME OF THEM ARE DEFINITELY HIS... THEN WE CAN CONCLUDE THEY ARE HIS SIGNATURES."
Rather: "ARE YOU SURPRISED THAT QUESTIONS COME ABOUT THESE. WE'RE NOT, BUT I WAS WONDERING IF YOU'RE SURPRISED."
Matley: "I KNEW GOING IN THAT THIS WAS DYNAMITE ONE WAY OR THE OTHER AND I KNEW THAT POTENTIALLY IT WAS FAR MORE POTENTIAL DAMAGE TO ME PROFESSIONALLY THAN BENEFIT ME. AND I KNEW THAT. BUT WE SEEK THE TRUTH. THAT'S WHAT WE DO. YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO PUT YOURSELF OUT. TO SEEK THE TRUTH AND TAKE WHAT COMES FROM IT."
Rather: ROBERT STRONG WAS AN ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICER FOR THE TEXAS AIR NATIONAL GUARD DURING THE VIETNAM YEARS. HE KNEW COL. JERRY KILLIAN, THE MAN CREDITED WITH WRITING THE DOCUMENTS.... AND PAPER WORK... LIKE THESE DOCUMENTS...WAS HIS SPECIALTY. HE IS STANDING BY HIS JUDGEMENT THAT THE DOCUMENTS ARE REAL.
Rather: "WHEN YOU READ THROUGH THESE DOCUMENTS, IS THERE ANY DOUBT IN YOUR MIND THAT THESE ARE GENUINE?"
Strong: "WELL,, THEY ARE COMPATIBLE WITH THE WAY BUSINESS WAS DONE AT THAT TIME. THEY ARE COMPATIBLE WITH THE MAN THAT I REMEMBER JERRY KILLIAN BEING. I DON'T SEE ANYTHING IN THE DOCUMENTS THAT'S DISCORDANT WITH WHAT WERE THE TIMES, WHAT WERE THE SITUATION OR WHAT WERE THE PEOPLE INVOLVED."
Rather: STRONG SAYS THE HIGHLY CHARGED POLITICAL ATMOSPHERE OF THE GUARD AT THE TIME... WAS PERFECTLY REPRESENTED IN THE NEW DOCUMENTS
Strong: "IT VERGED ON OUTRIGHT CORRUPTION IN TERMS OF THE FAVORS THAT WERE DONE, THE POWER THAT WAS TRADED. AND IT WAS UNCONSCIONABLE. FROM A MORAL AND ETHICAL STANDPOINT. IT WAS UNCONSCIONABLE."
Rather: IT IS THE INFORMATION IN THE NEW DOCUMENTS THAT IS MOST COMPELLING FOR PEOPLE FAMILIAR WITH PRESIDENT BUSH'S RECORD IN THE NATIONAL GUARD. AUTHOR JIM MORE HAS WRITTEN TWO BOOKS ON THE SUBJECT.
Rather: "YOU'VE STUDIED PRESIDENT BUSH'S RECORDS FOR 10 YEARS.. ARE THESE DOCUMENTS CONSISTENT WITH THE RECORD AS YOU KNOW IT?"
Moore: "THEY ARE ABSOLUTELY CONSISTENT WITH THE RECORDS AS I KNOW IT."
Rather: "PUT IT IN CONTEXT AND PERSPECTIVE FOR US ... THE STORY AND WHAT WE CALL THE COUNTERATTACK ON THE STORY. WHERE ARE WE RIGHT NOW?
Moore "I THINK WHAT HAS HAPPENED IS SOME INCRIMINATING DOCUMENTS HAVE COME OUT. THE WHITE HOUSE, YOU SHOULD REMEMBER, HAS NOT DISCREDITED THE DOCUMENTS. THEY'RE RELYING ON THE BLOGOSPHERE AND OTHER PEOPLE TO DO THAT. BECAUSE THE WHITE HOUSE PROBABLY KNOWS THESE DOCUMENTS ARE IN FACT REAL."
Rather Tag: The "60 Minutes" report was based NOT solely on the recovered documents .. but on a preponderance of evidence .. including documents that were provided by un-impeachable sources .. and interviews with former officials of the Texas National Guard. If any definitive evidence to the contrary of our story is found, we will report it.
So far, there is none.
Here's his source page.
http://www.forensic.org/experts/matley.html
Might as well be the local mall, IMHO.
This is a bluff. Dan is going to force his cohorts in the MSM to choose between him or the "partisan hacks". He's sent the word out that he'll deny it til the end, he'll squirm like Clinton to avoid dealing with the incontrovertible evidence.
He's daring them to take him down. And, sadly, I'm unsure whether they'll do it. They make make a few noises trying to get him to release the docs. But, like Clinton, Dan is betting he can wait them out.
And WE need to be circumspect. REMEMBER, the very journalists we want to challenge Rather are now watching what we're doing. Let's don't blow this.
Yup, and they're all "Have you stopped beating your wife?" style questions, too.
He should produce the copy with the original signature on it.
March 22, 1996
....Robert Stack: Is it possible that the experts are right? Could the "suicide" note of one of President Clinton's most trusted advisors have been forged? The implications are staggering - but only if these particular experts are correct. At least one other expert says they are not.
Marcel Matley: There is nothing in the questioned document that would support any finding of forgery. And the things that are brought forth - the apparent fragmentation - and those things are explained by the fact that we have a deteriorated copy and that fact that the man was under some emotional stress at the time.
Robert Stack: Marcel Matley is convinced that the other experts are wrong. Q1 on the left side represents the "suicide" note. K1 through K11 on the right side represents the known samples.
Marcel Matley: First is the word "the". We have three "the"s from the suicide note and three from the first known samples. You cannot tell the difference in these words. The only thing that, ah - that might be a difference is here, where it is deteriorated - this is from the photocopy that has been copied too often. The loop is gone and the stem is gone. The second word "to", we have four of them in the questioned document, one of which is where the tear is, so we can ignore it. But you notice these three "to"s have differences among them. We go to K9 and K10, we get three more words "to", we have the same differences. ..." Wow, this opens a can of worms!!!
Having followed this story closely, I can tell you definatively that Rather did not come close to counter the allegations of forgery. What he did do was to insinuate that the Right is behind the attack on the credibility of the documents and that the allegations of forgery are just political and not based on fact.
A personal observation - My reaction to Rather's report tonight is that he is not very smart [or he is getting old].
How long did this whole segment last? About 15 minutes out of the nightly news?
Call CBS and ask for Baghdad Bob :-)
hmmm. makes me wonder about beneficial ownership of various companies and Heinz trust money....
That's nonsense, too. CBS put up their documents on their website. Emailing a copy isn't going to change the way PDF documents look. What a laughable excuse.
Your document has basis in fact. The Houston Chronicle wrote just such a letter to President Johnson informing him that they would not attack him in print in exchange for letting a bank merger go through.
It was revealed when the book of the Johnson Tapes came out in the 1990s.
I am currently watch Dan...His voice is shot...i betcha it is a summer cold, or just yelling at his staff.
The chances of the docs lining up that perfectly are so slim it would be like shuffling an old deck of cards and finding that it is all in order, numbers and suits.
You need to talk to Accounting about that.
1 reference to Marcel Matley in this book:
1. from Front Matter: "... you for your outstanding book. I think it is the best book yet that helps the uninitiated understand our profession." -Marcel B. Matley Graphologist, San Francisco, CA "I enjoyed your book immensely, and ever since I've been busy analyzing everybody I know." -Douglas ..."
Amazon search revealed he apparently hasn't actually written any books on document review... but he did post a review at amazon...and he slept in a Holiday Inn last night
"Where are the originals? They did not have photocopiers in 1971. If someone gave Rather a photocopy, then they must have the original."
YOu're right..this pisses me off. Without the originals anyone can forge anything. Will photocopy stand up in court as evidence? I don't think so.
nick
Listen to the voice mail and press the number for reporting news. You will get a real person, she will give you the number for CBS New York, say that you wish to boycott KDKA and she will put you through to their comment line and say that KDKA as an affiliate of CBS should put pressure on the New York office, if not, you will boycott KDKA and their advertisers.
Well, Dan Rather is certainly welcome to post his grand exit opus here if he wishes.
-PJ
Family members like, um, oh, let's say, DAUGHTERS, don't count, Dan.
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