Explosive Found in Wreckage of Second Russian Jet

ABC News ^ | 8/2/04

[freeperfromnj]

Aug. 28, 2004 — MOSCOW (Reuters) - Explosives have been found in the wreckage of the second of two jets which crashed almost simultaneously this week, Russia's FSB security service said on Saturday.

"Additional examination of the fragments of the Tu-134 aircraft which crashed Tuesday ... has revealed traces of hexogen," an FSB spokesman said by telephone.

The FSB said Friday that hexogen, more widely known as RDX, had been found in the wreckage of the other plane which crashed Tuesday in southern Russia.

[silversky]

I want silversky to come back and give his definition of Moderate Islam

The simple answer first: There were only three countries that supported the Talliban before 9/11. Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and UAE. These are the Radical Islamists, the Wahhabi countries. Curiously, they were and still are "friends". With friends like this...

Now the long answer: Moderates are those Muslims who are content to live their life under God and don't seek expansion through violence. Conversely, Radicals want to change the world according to their own understanding of Islam. This is done with violence and generally is a payback for past injustice - in this case WW1. Yeap, the story goes back to WW1 and the destruction of the Caliphate in 1924. Curiously, Shiites (Iran) are happy with their Imam and are not mad about WW1. For them the world is in a legitimate state as it is now. Not so about the Wahhabis. They think that without the Caliphate the world is illegitimate. They blame the West for that "injustice" done to them in WW1. They scream "revenge". They need to take over the world now because they can't trust anybody anymore. Here is what OBL says
Osama bina Laden is a Sunni Muslim. To him the end of the reign of the caliphs in the 1920s was catastrophic, as he made clear in a videotape made after 9-11. On the tape, broadcast by Al-Jazeera on October 7, 2001, he proclaimed: "What America is tasting now is only a copy of what we have tasted. ... Our Islamic nation has been tasting the same for more [than] eighty years, of humiliation and disgrace, its sons killed and their blood spilled, its sanctities desecrated."

[txhurl]

Hey, looks like Primasheet can be fashioned into tampon bombs, too.

It worked in Russia, I fairly expect it to work here.

Damn.

[Calpernia]

>>>>Moderates are those Muslims who are content to live their life under God and don't seek expansion through violence.

Do Moderate Muslims follow Shariah Law? Is Shariah Law the same across all the Islamic interpretations of the Quran?

Or does Shariah Law vary due to which Imaan is interpreting the Quran?

THANK YOU for coming back to the thread.

[Calpernia]

That is a VERY unpleasant visual you just gave.

[okie01]

Or perhaps they lit them in the lav?

There was a report that both planes were brought down by explosions in the toilet.

This suggests that the mule had to take some specific action to ignite the material. Probably had to first remove it from a body cavity, as well.

[Travis McGee]

I think that's right.

[txhurl]

Yep, let them try to make amusing commercials out of that.

Wonder if there's some cell-phone actuator for these bombs, too. When the woman gets out of the bathroom, call the #.

[Calpernia]

>>>Wonder if there's some cell-phone actuator for these bombs, too. When the woman gets out of the bathroom, call the #.

Could something like that work from the ground too? Say the person didn't 'know' what they had, made a drop as instructed; then someone from the ground activate it? Or is the range too far?

[txhurl]

Good point, maybe black widows want to KNOW when they're going t!ts up, rather than it being sprung on them. But the guy on the ground would have to know the material is in the tail, and when to actuate.

[silversky]

Do Moderate Muslims follow Shariah Law?

Depends. The average Muslim can take it either way. Sharia is not the measure for moderation vs radicalism. Expansionism and violence against non-Muslims is the measure I would think that most Muslims don't like the Sharia. We may get there but it's a bit Utopian right now.

BTW, Shiite's beliefs are closer to Christianity than Sunni's. It all revolves around the assassination of Muhammad's grandson Husayn by the Sunnis. (yes the Wahhabis were usurpers and prone to terrorism from the very beginning, they also killed the entire family of the Prophet Muhammad).

[Calpernia]

>>>Sharia is not the measure for moderation vs radicalism.

It is a measure by some of the laws. Example, stoning or hanging a woman for for chasity reasons, cutting off a hand because someone claims you stole, female circumsision, etc.

I find most of the Sharia laws very radical and at the root of terroristic embracement.

>>>I would think that most Muslims don't like the Sharia.

Does this mean you are not Muslim? I was hoping you were. I would prefer clarification on these issues from someone that actually follows Islam.

[silversky]

I'm not a Muslim. I lived and worked with Muslims though. I also try to understand their thinking. They have pronounced group and individual differences, similarly to us, Christians. I don't consider myself competent enough to judge them for what they do to themselves. Only for what they do to us.

[Calpernia]

Sorry then. I was hoping you were Muslim.

[Grampa Dave]

dog fyi.

[RussianConservative]

But you know, it is not Wahhabies who attack us for 1300 years..it is Sunni and Shiete.

[RussianConservative]

My close friend from university served as a mercenary Mi24 pilot during the first Chechen war thats it.

Mercenary? Was he Russian working for Russian military? Then he is not mercenary. Contract soldier does not in English translate to mercenary...if so, all US is mercenary and so is Britian.

Most just don't know enough about it and don't really care, which is completely understandable given remote location and relative insignificance of the place. Some like you have Russian point of view which I know better then to try and change. Its like talking to Russians about Ukraine and its independence, pointless exercise in futility. For them we were/are/forever will be "chitryi chohly" and nothing more

Problem is, I do know and know well. So, as long as it is Russian Christians killed, it is all good...how pathetic. Good thing my relatives (who Ukrainian) in Dnipepitrovsk, Lughansk, Kharkov do not buy into this stupidity and never once say single thing about Russians dieing is good for Ukraine. But then 20% of Russian contract (professional) army is Ukraine....but by your logic, Russians should be happy when Tartars return to southern Ukraine....and it is funny how Ukraine not to happy to allow Eastern Ukraine and Krem escape to Russia.

For them we were/are/forever will be "chitryi chohly" and nothing more.

Sorry that does not fly...it is typical of nationalists, particularly the Catholic ones who even now rape all Ukraine as excuse for their crimes. Ukraine, that can not even feed itself.

[RussianConservative]

The funny thing, same kinds of nationalist that march in streets of Tbilisi to scream independence were first ones on planes flying to live and work in Russia...once they figure out the crap they create for selves and the fact that they have everything for free and work little and now do not even have electricity. Million Georgians live in Russia now.

[silversky]

Nothing can be done about events that took place 1300 years ago. Hitler killed the most Russians with Napoleon close second. It would be stupid to start fights with France or Germany now because of it. The world's present problem is Wahhabism. It must be isolated and crushed economically and ideologically. There is no need to drag ourselves into sin by indiscriminate attacks. I'm glad that Putin is firm and just. No excesses, no fear. Learn from him. He is genuine.

[silversky]

same kinds of nationalist that march in streets of Tbilisi to scream independence were first ones on planes flying to live and work in Russia

It's called "bite the hand that feeds you". It happens a lot there. You have to factor in the media, $or$ money etc. People are gullible, a fact of life.

I have to go now. Thanks for chatting.

[K. Smirnov]

I worked in Dublin (the one in Ireland) - based multinational company and happened to have some muslim colleagues. First year they resisted the temptation - did not eat wonderful tiny cocktail sausages, drank beer, etc. However after the second year in Eire, they were falling into the trap - Guinness or Smitwicks with a bit of pork cocktail sausages was their usual. That is it for Sharia laws! Wish we had enough Guinness/Smithwicks and pork susages for every one of them!!!