Posted on 08/25/2004 2:09:41 PM PDT by yonif
Declaring "the front line of the war against terror once again involves the citizens," Republican Alan Keyes said Tuesday he believes the U.S. Constitution grants properly trained private individuals the right to own and carry machine guns.
"You're not talking about giving citizens access to atom bombs and other things," the former presidential candidate said. "That's ridiculous."
But the GOP nominee for U.S. Senate argued the founding fathers intended the Second Amendment to allow people to carry the types of weapons "customarily carried in those days by ordinary infantry soldiers."
"And, yes, does that mean that in this day and age people would have the right to have access to the kind of the weapons our ordinary infantry people have access to? With proper training and so forth to make sure that they could handle them successfully, that's exactly what was meant."
Keyes made the remarks at a news conference he called to attack the "ideological extremism" of his Democratic opponent, state Sen. Barack Obama.
The Republican lit into Obama for voting against a bill in Springfield earlier this year that would have allowed people who use handguns to fend off home invaders or attackers to argue self-defense as a possible legal defense against prosecution for violating any local anti-firearm possession ordinances.
The measure passed the Legislature with bi-partisan support, but Gov. Blagojevich vetoed it last week.
Keyes called Obama's vote against the measure an "appalling . . . lack of common sense."
"This seems to be a man who is absolutely determined to make the world safe for criminals, while making sure that law-abiding citizens have no opportunity to defend themselves against the criminals," Keyes said.
Keyes said he supports a system in which guns would be treated similarly to automobiles, with people being required to undergo different levels of training before they would be allowed to own and carry various sorts of weapons.
"I always remind -- even people who support the Second Amendment -- that it has two parts: the right to keep and bear" arms, Keyes said. " 'Bear' means to carry, to carry around. . . . I think it has been proven empirically that . . . allowing law-abiding citizens this access to conceal-carry actually reduces crime."
Keyes said he owns two firearms himself: a 9mm Glock semi-automatic pistol and a .38-caliber "six-shooter." But he said he does not keep them at his new home in Calumet City.
Keyes only indirectly answered a reporter's question about whether he would "be comfortable if the entire society was walking around with Uzis, as long as they were properly trained."
"Have you ever been to Israel?" Keyes asked the reporter. "Because if you've ever been to Israel, you wouldn't ask that question. And in the midst of terrifying dangers, you walk around the streets of Israel and you see every other person carrying arms and Uzis and so forth and so on, and believe me, you do not feel less safe on that account."
Machine guns, or fully automatic weapons, are firearms that fire multiple shots with a single pull of the trigger.
Thomas Ahern, a spokesman for the Chicago division of the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, said private individuals can only own such weapons if they apply with the bureau and clear a series of hurdles, including a background check, fingerprinting and the OK of local law enforcement officials. Additional paperwork is required any time the weapon is to be transported.
"It is heavily regulated," Ahern said.
A spokesman for Obama defended the Democrat's record on guns.
"Certainly he believes in the Second Amendment, but he also believes in common-sense gun safety laws, such as the federal ban on military-style assault weapons." said spokesman Robert Gibbs. "If Alan Keyes truly was concerned about public safety, that would be his position, as well."
So what you're saying here is that as far as Second Amendment rights, there isn't a lick of difference between Keyes and Obama?
Ooooo....that's gonna leave a mark...
Keyes didn't say what you said.
But you know that.
I'm sorry, maybe your version of the Second has some extra wording that mine does not have...does your read "...shall not be infringed except by the States"?
Wow! A position I agree with Keyes on. Plus, he'll have the teenage gangbanger vote, and no one else will take that block away from him ;0)
Have you seen that house?
Does anyone know if he's ever spent a single night there?
"The House" (scroll down a couple of inches, it's the first photo on the page)
My how things have changed around here.
I see a lot of burning bridges.
It's actually quite stunning.
If Keyes is the best thing since sliced bread, what was the big thing BEFORE sliced bread? I've always wondered about that...
Because EV will try to get you thrown out of the forum if he doesn't agree with what you say.
Where in the Constitution does it say anything about properly trained? It says it's a right. Period.
Try??????
Looks to me like he has been quite successful.
he didn't say "licensed like automobiles"
Apparently, disparaging comments about President Bush are perfectly in-bounds, and not to be responded to.
Good to know.
not explicitly in the 2A, but at the time it was written, it was generally understood, and explicitly spelled out in State Constitutions, that all males (not just the the smaller group of voting citizens) had a required militia duty, and were obligated to be trained for such duty.
so "owning and carrying with proper training" will pass.
How to handle advanced weapons like machine guns, especially considering the 2nd should be incorporated under the 14th, is an interesting question.
Keyes put it in the context of the original intent of the Second which was to protect both the individual RKBA and the state militias from federal restrictions.
And it's the WRONG question anyway.
I did and that's the last I'll about about it.
I'll pause here at post 22 and agree with you, before reading on to what I'm sure will be a bunch of Keyes bashing.
Ironic, a thread on the 2nd ammendment as a personal right, Keyes in agreement with Dershowitz and Tribe, and I bet Freepers will find fault. Go figure.
I also support America 100%, and have an intense dislike for "Socialists, liberals, communists, trolls and other America haters" and don't want them around me.
I'll be damned if I will go crawling to Uncle Sam and ask his permission so I can carry a gun.
How do YOU feel about this issue, Jim? Should we, as Keyes is proposing, get permission from the government in order to own weapons, or is it our inherent right to do so?
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