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To: Destro

Actually, the OT also says that capital punishment should be inflicted for intentional murder of a fetus, although the exact meaning of the passage is rather vague as it is difficult to translate.

It is also only fair to point out that the ancient Greeks may have been opposed to abortion, but they had no trouble at all with infanticide. Letters have been found written by Greeks from around the time of Christ instructing the wife to "expose" the child if female, but keep it if male. Greek (and Roman) writers of the day were astounded that Jews raised all the children they gave birth to, as infanticide was extremely common in their societies.

You might call it post-partum abortion.

It is likely that the reason (some) Greeks objected to abortion was that it interfered with the right of the man to decide whether to keep his child or not. Women in Greek (and again, Roman) society were, if anything, less recognized as fully human than among the Jews. As a remarkably egregious example, Roman women weren't even given names! Roman daughters were numbered: first, second, third and so forth.

The Greeks had nothing at all against slavery, only against Greeks being enslaved, which didn't stop them from doing a great deal of it. The surviving Athenian soldiers from the invasion of Sicily were sold into slavery, for instance.

The Athenians (those wonderful democrats) killed all the men and sold all the women and children from at least one of the island states that had the temerity to rebel against their oppression.

The Jews allowed slavery for Jews, but only for a limited term, a maximum of 7 years. This made it more a type of indentured servitude than true slavery. And it was a capital crime to sell a Jewish slave to foreigners.

The balance between the morality of Jewish and Greek institutions is not nearly as one-sided as you portray.


91 posted on 08/18/2004 8:50:29 AM PDT by Restorer
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To: Restorer
Actually, the OT also says that capital punishment should be inflicted for intentional murder of a fetus, although the exact meaning of the passage is rather vague as it is difficult to translate.

It does not say that. My statement was "The Old Testament says that if you cause a miscarriage by accident you have to pay a fine. That is as specific as the OT gets on the subject." is accurate. For such a thing as murder of a fetus you want to say that the OT passage was vague?

The Greeks considered all infanticide a sin (no evil in Pagan Greek theology just correct and incorrect behavior towards the gods) when an infant was exposed it was done so because to kill out right was a sin (if that is the term for it). Exposing an unwanted infant meant nature was the killer not the parent and in exposures a slave was made to do it because their taint would not matter.

Secondly, the Greeks only exposed the deformed early on in the city state period - not healthy males and the poor exposed females healthy or unhealthy (later on in the post Alexander world and Rome where huge city slums developed some thing healthy male infants were sometimes also exposed but no proof exists).

I know very well of the passage you speak and the father is writting a letter to his wife instructing her to expose the infant if it was a female in Alexandria. In actuality "garbage scavangers" would patrol the city's garbage dumps were exposure was practiced and if the infant was a healthy girl (but unwanted by the poor parents) the infant would be sold to slavers who would raise most likely to be sold off as a prostitute. Female infants who were crippled would be allowed to die. Male cripled infants if salvagable would also be saved by the scavangers and sold to slavery because even if lame it was still a male child.

But in any case my statement is true - that the ancient Pagan Greeks not the Jews were the first to SPECIFICALLY condemn eutenasia and abortions and even some forms of slavery. The OT and NT NEVER touch on the subject and the reason the Christian church is against abortion and euthanasia has more to do with the Greek fathers of the Church incorporating their Greek philosophy within the teachings of Jesus. The Fathers considered many aspects of Greek philosophy to have been pre-Christian (such as Platonic love) and inspired by God for the Greeks to prepare the way for Jesus salvation spreading into the gentiles.

But in any case as shocking as it sounds anti-abortion and anti-euthanasia and anti-slavery are Pagan Greek concepts not Jewish either in the Old or New Testament.

93 posted on 08/18/2004 9:31:09 AM PDT by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting www.johnathangaltfilms.com)
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