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To: Restorer
Actually, the OT also says that capital punishment should be inflicted for intentional murder of a fetus, although the exact meaning of the passage is rather vague as it is difficult to translate.

It does not say that. My statement was "The Old Testament says that if you cause a miscarriage by accident you have to pay a fine. That is as specific as the OT gets on the subject." is accurate. For such a thing as murder of a fetus you want to say that the OT passage was vague?

The Greeks considered all infanticide a sin (no evil in Pagan Greek theology just correct and incorrect behavior towards the gods) when an infant was exposed it was done so because to kill out right was a sin (if that is the term for it). Exposing an unwanted infant meant nature was the killer not the parent and in exposures a slave was made to do it because their taint would not matter.

Secondly, the Greeks only exposed the deformed early on in the city state period - not healthy males and the poor exposed females healthy or unhealthy (later on in the post Alexander world and Rome where huge city slums developed some thing healthy male infants were sometimes also exposed but no proof exists).

I know very well of the passage you speak and the father is writting a letter to his wife instructing her to expose the infant if it was a female in Alexandria. In actuality "garbage scavangers" would patrol the city's garbage dumps were exposure was practiced and if the infant was a healthy girl (but unwanted by the poor parents) the infant would be sold to slavers who would raise most likely to be sold off as a prostitute. Female infants who were crippled would be allowed to die. Male cripled infants if salvagable would also be saved by the scavangers and sold to slavery because even if lame it was still a male child.

But in any case my statement is true - that the ancient Pagan Greeks not the Jews were the first to SPECIFICALLY condemn eutenasia and abortions and even some forms of slavery. The OT and NT NEVER touch on the subject and the reason the Christian church is against abortion and euthanasia has more to do with the Greek fathers of the Church incorporating their Greek philosophy within the teachings of Jesus. The Fathers considered many aspects of Greek philosophy to have been pre-Christian (such as Platonic love) and inspired by God for the Greeks to prepare the way for Jesus salvation spreading into the gentiles.

But in any case as shocking as it sounds anti-abortion and anti-euthanasia and anti-slavery are Pagan Greek concepts not Jewish either in the Old or New Testament.

93 posted on 08/18/2004 9:31:09 AM PDT by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting www.johnathangaltfilms.com)
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To: Restorer

PS: To clarify - When the poor would expose a child - or more accuratly pay a slave a fee to do it their was an unspoken understanding that the child if healthy would be sold off into slavery and not really exposed.


94 posted on 08/18/2004 9:44:17 AM PDT by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting www.johnathangaltfilms.com)
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To: Destro

My memory with regard to the verse in Exodus played me false. Mea culpa. Although if accidental inducement of an abortion was punished with a fine, presumably intentional abortion would have been punished more severely.

Good luck with claiming that putting your child out with the garbage means you aren't personally responsible. "The weather did it, not me." LOL

Western civilization is the only one that has ever existed that is a true hybrid, between Greek and Hebrew (Biblical). As such, some like to emphasize one "parent" over the other, claiming that all good comes from one and all bad from the other. Like hybrids in general, this combined heritage is what has made western civilization so incredibly hardy and durable.

Christians (and conservatives in general) tend to emphasize the Hebraic and Biblical roots of our culture, secularists and libertarians the Greek ones.

The truth, of course, is that they are so intertwined that they are extraordinarily difficult to separate. Just as removing either half of the genetic material of a living hybrid will kill it, so would removing either half of the cultural material of western civilization.

Most of the indigenous anti-western movements of the last 200 years (socialism, Marxism, fascism, liberalism, etc.) are in a very real sense a rebellion against the Hebraic component of our culture.


95 posted on 08/18/2004 9:53:49 AM PDT by Restorer
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