Ready to rumble? Village Voice Author, Rick Perlstein, Here to Debate the Freeper Horde

08/03/2004 | Rick Perlstein

[alisasny]

Well said and that motivated my participation : )

[BADROTOFINGER]

I agree. This is a dog and pony show for Mr. Perlstein's benefit. It will do no good. He is simply here because he hates conservatives. He is a close-minded bigot who is only here to prove to his friends that WE are the bigots. He is also incapable and unwilling to answer the questions posed to him, and that also makes him a liar. Have a nice day...JFK

[Jim Noble]

Mr. Perlstein, welcome to FR!

I do not have time to engage in this fascinating dialog with you today, I hope you find it illuminating.

Perhaps the fact that you are here means that you are starting the journey away from emotional bondage to outmoded 19th century ideas, towards freedom and towards the ideas that made America a light unto the nations.

This journey is one that many of us here have travelled, or are travelling now.

Best wishes to you, and thanks for coming.

[loveliberty2]

"...the widespread way conservatives are ignoring the lessons of James Madison's great insights in Federalist 51 that in America we are supposed to place our ultimate trust in laws, not men."

All of us should have great concern about "the widespread way" or any narrow way that either liberals or conservatives ignore Madison's advice.

The difference, however, is that our Constitution is our basic law. Its provisions fulfill the promise of the Preamble only if we abide by its own very strict provision for the Amendment process. Judges can't do it; Presidents can't do it; the Congress can't do it. No mere MEN (or women) can amend the Constitution of the United States of America by its OWN STRICT REQUIREMENTS. ONLY "WE, THE PEOPLE," through the process prescribed within the Constitution, can amend it legally.

This is what Madison's Federalist 51 means by trusting by laws, not men.

The Liberal Left's interpretation of the Constitution as a "living" document (meaning that judges, Supreme Court Justices, legislators, Presidents can amend it at will) has threatened our liberty and rights. The Left believes that if a judge says something is the law, then the rest of us have to follow it. If we challenge it, then we are told about the "rule of law." They do not mean that we abide by the meaning of the Constitution as it was written and amended through its own legal process. They mean by the "rule of law" recent judges and justices have claimed it to mean.

Constructionists, however, normally known as "conservatives," believe that "a government of laws, not of men," means just that. The Constitution must rule the President, the Legislators, the judges and Justices, and "we, the People." Amendments to its provisions and protections can only be made through the process provided therein, or we are back to government by MEN, not fixed laws.

Consult the "other Founding Father" who contributed to The Federalist, if you will. He said it most succinctly:

"Until the people have, by some solemn and authoritative act, annulled or changed the established form, it is binding upon them collectively, as well as individually; and NO PRESUMPTION OR EVEN KNOWLEDGE OF THEIR SENTIMENTS, CAN WARRANT THEIR REPRESENTATIVES [the executive, judiciary, or legislature]; IN A DEPARTURE FROM IT PRIOR TO SUCH AN ACT."

Hamilton is featured in a new biography recently off the press. Liberals should consult his and Madison's wisdom. America's Founders knew that if judges were allowed to change the law, without going through the Constitution's own rigorous Amendment process, the people's liberty would be threatened. They also knew the tendency of human nature to abuse power. That applied to elected and unelected persons, and they were not about to allow it.

[cyncooper]

I confess, I've wondered that off and on myself.

It is better to think of Bush 41 or Reagan. Of course the left would demand we hold Bush 43 to the same standards we wanted to hold Clinton to. Here's the thing they don't get---we WOULD.

To really expose their hypocrisy is to contemplate the Bush 41 or Reagan having an affair while in office--just a normal relationship one and not even reaching the depravity that was going on in the Oval Office with 42. We can then contemplate how they would have reacted before being in a position to defend their boy (and boy he remains). The left would have led the parade to decry such conduct and we'd have had none of that "personal life" garbage or "compartmentalization" nonsense. And again, our side would have concurred and an impeachment wouldn't have been necessary. Like Nixon, our own side would have demanded they step down having been found to have disgraced the office.

[don-o]

Hi Rick.

You did offer to interview me on this, but I guess connections broke down.

There are myriad reasons that the Red States are leery of Kerry.

Big time college football is a really big deal in flyover country, and F'n is clueless.

Scroll down a few - see that F'n forgot he was in Michigan when he touted for the Ohio State Buckeyes.

Small matter? Sure it is for the brie and Chardonnay swells. But, it reeks for Joe six-pack. Mash this

[Wonderama]

Bryon, as a Catholic I too am appalled at the Catholic and Christian left. The Presbterian church just called for the "economic strangulation of Israel" and compared Israel to South Africa during apartheid.

Israel is our only friend in the middle east. Maybe Iraq will be next.

Mr. Perstein, what do you think of the Israel situation? Loaded questsion I know. Do you think US should continue to support Israel? Are Israelis and Palesteinians moral equivilant?(excuse the spelling)

[alisasny]

OMG what a post and it was 666 LOL

[Byron_the_Aussie]

..finally, Mr. Perlstein, I don't know your background or what your childhood was like, but mine was tough...

Perlstein's background is one of indulgence and privilege- like every other New York liberal:

Perlstein came to New York in 1994, after earning a bachelor’s degree at the University of Chicago and attending graduate school at the University of Michigan working toward an American Cultural Studies degree. He is the son of Sandi and Jerry Perlstein, recently retired owners of Bonded Messenger Service. The Perlsteins have raised three other creative children: Linda, a writer for the Washington Post; Ben, who has his own jazz band known in Milwaukee as “The Benjamins,” and Steve, a publisher. They grew up in the Bayside and Fox Point areas and attended Nicolet High School.

[Southack]

"Try language along with some facts: "asked for" is not the same as "distributed."

That's poor logic on your part. Perlstein responded to my request for a factcheck of his claims. His original claim was that only 2% of $15 Billion had been distributed. However, his actual source for his factcheck said that a full $2 Billion had been funded last year (13%).

That's his source. If either you or Perlstein wants to argue that the $2 Billion funded last year per his source wasn't distributed, then you'll need to present a reliable source that documents such a claim.

Until then, one can't make the conclusion that only $300 million has been distributed, as Rick claimed.

5 Legislative Days Left Until The AWB Expires

[Indy Pendance]

"How about some sort of 'stream of conciousness', on the spot debating"

This thread is a real disappointment. It was hyped and he didn't deliver. Instead, he cut and paste and linked. Whoop-dee-doo. Typical liberal technique. At least we on FR pretty much discuss, even if we err (and get flamed for our errors), we still discuss. Once in a while we back up our thoughts with articles supporting our position, but, he has yet to really engage in an honest debate. (I'm only on post #201, and he's had what, 4-5 replies that didn't amount to jack.)

[cake_crumb]

"His behavior was odious, irresponsible and unprofessional. They couldn't prove a viable motive, that's all."

Actually, he's still under investigation.

[Perlstein]

Do you have close conservative friends?
----
Yes. I cultivate conservative friends. It's an important part of my life. You may know that i wrote a biography of Barry Goldwater, and made many conservative friends during that adventure.
-----

One of my liberal friends is pro choice by not for herself she is pro life when it comes to her own body....it's little inconsistencies like this that bug the hell out of me ....
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No inconsistency. It's not like liberals want to force OTHERS to get abortions. Just to give them the right to chose. I'm pro choice when it comes to listening to Michael Bolton albums but anti-Michael Bolton when it comes to my own personal listening.
-----

Or a liberal friend who loves tax cuts but will vote Kerry knowing our taxes are going way up if he is in office come January....

-----
Bush will raise taxes in his second term unless he wants the world economy to collapse, is my opinion. And, of course, for most people taxes HAVE gone way up these past four years: the kind of local tax hikes muncipalities have had to impose to make up for the missing federal funds.

[cyncooper]

And why do you grant credibility to this Throckmorton, lock stock and barrel???

My goodness, your standards go right out the window when you desire to believe the worst about a man you dislike.

[Wonderama]

Do you hate conservatives Rick? Or do you hate the philosophy of conservatism?

[jincarolina]

It is a commie tactic, they accuse their opponents of what they are guilty of doing.

[WOSG]

"I developed the HYPOTHESIS that some conservatives were beginning to use their judgement that Bush was an inherently good person, deep within his soul, as an excuse not to think straight about what George Bush is doing, in an email dialogue with a FR member."

This attack on people's personality or mode of thinking is extremely shallow and so general ('some' of any group of 50 million an be found doing practically anything) it is of no use in helping judge issues.

The vast majority of us on the Right side of the fence judge a man by his actions. George W Bush has actions which line up with his words - he promised tax cuts, prescription drugs, transformation in the military, and No Child Left Behind. Now we can debate: 1. If these actions, ideas, and his words are correct and good. 2. If they match up.

The belief that Bush is a good person comes from observation. If Bush didnt show himself to be a sincere person, you wouldnt get people thinking him sincere. I've seen it myself on FR, where a single proposal (like on immigration) is enough to set off people against Bush.

This is far different from how the left adoed Clinton, no matter what the ethical troubles; the projection from the left is laughable. All through the Monica scandal, you had the willing disbelief in common sense and basic fact from people who claimed to have IQs above room temperature.

I knew then that most of the left were intellectually hollow. A few kept their conscience intact (Hitchens etc.), but most leftists put expediency above principle there.

What you call 'hero' worship is simply the observations of those Americans who believe in what Bush is doing and what he stands for. He wouldnt be appreciated so much if he wasnt worth the appreciation. But Bush's sincerity, decisiveness and grace has come through on many occasions.

Generally if a Republican gets into real ethical issues, he is toast. Look at anyone named 'Ryan' in Illinois. For Democrats, there seems to be a shell of protection fomed, eg, look at Sandy Berger.

"I'm sorry you think I'm bigoted towards conservatives. Talking with conservatives is one of the things I most enjoy in the world."

Yeah, yeah yeah, and " I have friend who are Jewish."
You'd be more convincing if you first admitted or understood than conservatives are not one undifferentiated mass. It's like talking about Asians or thinking they are all 'chinamen' - kind of insulting, actually, as it exposes both bias and ignorance.

[Last Visible Dog]

Nope! Math check: 10% of $15 Billion is $1.5 Billion. 2% of $15 Billion is $300 million. Clearly Bush distributed more than that last year, per the source ($2 Billion).

"I was told there would be no math questions" - Chevy Chase playing President Ford on SNL

Wrong on math, right on statement.

Those darn decimal places.

Clearly Mr. Perlstein is wrong and his numbers have no connection to the article he cited so we are left to assume he just makes these numbers up.

[dasein64]

I have two relatives who are veterans of WW2 and Vietnam and Korea. They have received more increases in benefits with Geo Bush than any recent pres. RATS lie.

[Ben Bolt]

Perhaps he has observers. And perhaps although HE has pledged not to write an article, I will not be surprised to say a hit piece from one of his "observers."


I believe this is the case . He is trolling for material .