REPUBLICANS PLAN PUSH FOR ELIMINATION OF IRS

http://www.drudgereport.com/ ^ | XXXXX SUN AUG 01, 2004 21:01:25 ET XXXXX | Matt Drudge

[verity]

Nothing will change.

[E. Pluribus Unum]

Don't forget their miserable little plot to make this untrue for most of the masses. - Witholding.

I am not forgetting it, but at least it is on the check stub of anyone with enough self-interest to check.

A VAT will never show up as a line item anywhere.

[Question_Assumptions]

VATs are bad. The NRST could work, but I would want the income tax taken out of the Constitution, first. Otherwise, we'll eventually have both, in exactly the same way that we got the income tax in the first place (it will only apply to the "very rich" and won't be very high...).

[scubadan]

I guess all I'm saying is that, in theory, the NRST is more fair than a progressive income tax system. As soon as everyone starts getting refunds to eliminate a dollar level for taxation you've reduced some of that fairness. If an income tax system is retained for the "rich", the fairness is even more tainted along with the promise to eliminate tax preparers. If business transactions are exempt from the tax, thus eliminating corporate taxation, additional tax burden will shift to individuals with no guarantee of offsetting consumer savings. Individuals intent on avoiding the tax will establish business activities to "shelter" income thus bringing back the accountants and compliance monitors.

Although it might be a great campaign issue, I don't think it would ever provide the benefits its dreamers foresee. I guess I see that as the difference between "theory" and "reality".

[carenot]

This is where the new sale tax police come in and make rules over which transactions are really tax free, and the rules will be just as complex as the rules we have today. You can bank on it.

Stuff is only taxed at retail. How hard is that?

[carenot]

Also I would tink that it would be possible to apply for earned income assistance, maybe not in the same way, but still possible.

Not if there is no income tax.
Maybe there would still be welfare and AFDC.

[scubadan]

Stuff is only taxed at retail. How hard is that?

The way I understand it, only individuals would be taxed at the retail level and not businesses. Therefore, individuals desiring to avoid the tax will attempt to establish "businesses" to do so. Rules and regulations defining business activity will be needed and someone will need to "police" compliance with these rules.

Simple, huh? It creates a situation not much different than what we have now regarding chasing tax cheaters, or avoiders, dedending on which side of the fence you're on. No system is perfect and there will always be people out there trying to bend the rules to their favor. Since that's a given, someone has to police the actual activity and taxes reported.

The speed limit sign can say 55 but you still need a policeman with a radar gun to catch the speeders.

[carenot]

Individuals intent on avoiding the tax will establish business activities to "shelter" income thus bringing back the accountants and compliance monitors.

No need to shelter. No forms to fill out.

[johnb838]

Where does that translate into being a centerpiece of the Bush/GOP agenda? The headline is misleading, if not downright dishonest.

That's a good (and scary) point. If the White House is brave enough to float this before the election, it will be viciously denounced as a Risky Scheme. But it should be the White House that floats it, not a scumbag like Matt Drudge. OK, scumbag might be a little harsh, but he's definitely a tabloid journalist. Could this be a case of throwing as much as possible at the wall and hoping something sticks? Is that how he outed Clintoon on the harMonica thing? Or could he really be taking after W?

[k2blader]

Tax reform is long overdue. But until the GOP puts its money where its mouth is...

[Always Right]

Stuff is only taxed at retail. How hard is that?

OK, I buy cars for my employees, that is a business to business transaction so it would not be tax right? What if I buy grocercies for my employees? What if I buy a house for my employees? If employer provide all essentials to employees, virtually all sales tax could be avoided. You could say the same about only income is taxed, how hard is that? There are billions of transaction each year, the trick will be deciding what is retail and what isn't and how to close loopholes. I would wager everything I have that this will not be an easy task.

[carenot]

Simple, huh? It creates a situation not much different than what we have now regarding chasing tax cheaters, or avoiders, dedending on which side of the fence you're on.

We have always had the cheaters.
The only things I buy new is food, medicine and stuff like soap and toilet paper. :)

[scubadan]

Tax shelter would be today's term. Tax avoidance would be the term under a NRST. Perhaps I used the wrong word but it doesn't change the facts I mentioned.

[Always Right]

No need to shelter. No forms to fill out.

There will be forms to fill out for every family so they can recieve their monthly rebate check, and of course there will be weekly forms to fill out by businesses reporting all their retail sales. Also it will be necessary to track all non-retail purchases to make sure they qualify. Also individuals are liable for sales tax they pay to non-registered businesses or individuals for goods or services. Technically, if you pay $50 to the neightbor boy to mow your yard you owe $15 in sales tax, so there will need to be a form for that.

[carenot]

OK, I buy cars for my employees, that is a business to business transaction so it would not be tax right? What if I buy grocercies for my employees? What if I buy a house for my employees? If employer provide all essentials to employees, virtually all sales tax could be avoided.

No, if you bought groceries for them, that is retail. If you buy a new house or car for them, that is retail. Retail is taxed.

[scubadan]

We have always had the cheaters.

TOUCHE!!

That's why you'll always need someone to catch the cheaters. You may eliminate the need to prepare a tax return subject to IRS scrutiny but some agency (federal, state or both) will still need to determine taxable versus nontaxable transactions and the accuracy of each. This will not happen automatically without the threat of punishment for non-compliance.

[carenot]

Technically, if you pay $50 to the neightbor boy to mow your yard you owe $15 in sales tax, so there will need to be a form for that.

Why do you think that?

Have you read HR25?

[Always Right]

No, if you bought groceries for them, that is retail. If you buy a new house or car for them, that is retail. Retail is taxed.

Well then some business to business transactions are taxed? How do you figure out which ones? If I buy toilet paper to use in my office is that retail? How do you track it? What about other office supplies? If I provide health insurance is that taxed? How are leased items taxed? If I buy an item I have leased, do I have to pay sales tax again? Most NRSTer's claim that all business to business are not taxed, but you are telling me some are....

[Always Right]

Have you read HR25?

yes