Posted on 07/27/2004 10:15:01 AM PDT by Bonaparte
What about that Berger guy... I think that is a bigger story. I wonder what the Clintons stole?
There was also a guy in Arizona a couple of years ago. His wife and stepchildren turn up missing. The truck is found in a grocery store parking lot. Bodies are never found. The guy is on death row now.
"Why could that not be the case here? I'm speaking from personal experience as someone raised in archaic Catholic beliefs."
That's just it. The kind of attitude towards divorce you are talking about is an extreemist CATHOLIC attitude.
In their case, the church is there to help keep a marriage together, but it never judges or punishes people just for getting a divorce, or getting married again after getting divorced. The kind of attitude towards divorce just isn't part of Mormon culture. It just isn't reasonable to think that she would fear anything more than personal embarasment for getting a divorce, especially in the face of the family's willingness to give Mark the benifit of a doubt (so far) in the face of all this.
There is no indication that this was even heading towards a divorce, and unless there was abuse or recently discovered infidelity it's unlikely that she would rapidly decide to seek a divorce without trying to patch things up first.
Her parents have shown themselves to be slow to judge others harshly, and quick to forgive. Surely their daughter knew they were like that.
"You do realize that we're all just speculating here, right?"
Yes, but speculation should start with the known facts and work forward, not pick a pre-determined end and then try to work backwards to some of the facts. There are real people involved in this, and I'm sure you wouldn't want people attributing harsh characteristics to you just to advance a totaly blue-sky speculation.
At this point it really doesn't seem reasonable at all to think she bolted or that she feared her parents reaction to them getting divorced. Mark had motive, means, and opportunity to kill her. She doesn't seem to have any motive run off without telling anyone and cause all this commotion.
Then why not try a thread that's discussing the Berger matter? Seems to me your curiosity would more likely be satisfied over there.
There are numerous examples of solid murder convictions for cases in which the body is not found.
There was a guy in Florida about 5 or 6 years ago, who moved into a girlfriend's trailer with her and her little daughter. I think his name was Crane or Crain. Something like that. Anyway, the girl went missing about the same time he did. No body, no witnesses, no confession. But he was given the death penalty by a jury who saw lots of strong forensic evidence of a violent episode involving the defendant and the girl.
But no matter how much evidence there is, some people are never convinced. They'd have to see it with their own eyes and even then, they would doubt what they saw. Some of them just like to argue to the point of absurdity.
I had heard that he was shipped off to the same facility that he worked at. The media needs to get their act together.
Amen to that!
Yep. That Berger story has been placed on the back burner. I hope that the prosecutors are still pursuing it. But hey, those documents ended up inadverantly in Sandy Bergler's pants, and he may have accidently discarded him, and the poor guy is just sloppy, so why is anybody bothering him about it?
There have been a number of murder cases with convictions and no body. I can't remember the names of any of them, but do remember seeing some of them on "The New Detectives", and reading about a couple of them in books by Ann Rule. There was one case I recall where there was no body, but the medical examiner was able to determine by the amount of blood found on the carpet pad and floor under the pad (carpet had been discarded, and another one placed over it, if I recall) that no one could have lost that much blood and survived. A case that Ann Rule (true crime writer) wrote about, there wasn't even any blood found. It was a completely circumstantial case where a wife had disappeared, and the husband's lies and bizarre behavior were enough for the prosecutor to put a case together and get a conviction.
Good illustrations!
Have you ever visited Sam Vaknin's site on Narcissism? It's an education on how their minds work. They think and behave believing that they're smarter than everyone else. Pay close attention to the topic of "narcissistic injury". Rage killing sure would fit.
This guy thinks he's smarter than the average bear. I think LE is hoping he says something that will help them recover Lori's body. That may be why they haven't arrested him yet. It's not like Mark is going anywhere anytime soon.
Wouldn't it be great if all the liars and manipulators of the world got stuck with one another. That would be fun to watch.
I want on ping list
I can understand the whole family rallying around and protecting Mark in an age when you're instantly tried in the media, but that doesn't mean you have to give up rational thought and the ability to conceive that he just might be guilty, expecially when the evidence starts mounting up like it is in this case. Right now it's safe to take Mark's side because nothing is gained by not doing so. I suspect the lovefest will breakup, however, when a crucial piece of evidence is revealed, like the results of the blood tests and/or finding the body and the police make an arrest.
Don't throw stones, brother.
The facts are that Lori Hacking's husband is a pathological liar. He worked at a psychiatric center. She worked at Wells Fargo as a trainee trader. His brothers were professionals, he was not. Normal people might feel a little resentful about that, but they sure wouldn't build up a web of lies to make their outside appearance look better. The fact is that Lori Hacking is gone. There is forensic evidence suggesting that a rage killing took place in their apartment. MH calls friends and Lori's work, then buys a mattress, then runs around naked at a motel. Of course it's just speculation that he had anything to do with it, or that Lori knew there was a problem. I'm going by her mother's continual defense of this person who was her husband. I've seen it before. It's a mindset, not a specific religion.
When it comes to religious lunacy, keep David Koresh, Andrea Yates, and the Hale Bop Comet crowd in mind. They look just like you and me.
It would be even more fun to ship them off to another planet. Bill, Hill, Kerry, etc. could finally rule a world ;-)
>>You mean you don't already know?<<
No, I know personally of no murder case where the body or parts of it were unaccounted for and the defendant was convicted of murder. I'm not saying there's no case in history, I'm just unaware of it -- and it was your argument, not mine.
>>we can start your education now.<<
Yeah, OK. Start my education. /grin /smirk /outright laughter.
>>Do you remember a case a few years back in New Jersey? <<
Not at all. Do you have a case name and a reporter citation, if the appeal was published? If this is true, I'd be interested in seeing the differences between it and what's been reported so far. And I would bet money right now there are significant differences. Eyewitness? Diary?
>>You actually think a person can be identified by his or her blood type alone?<<
I didn't say a person could be identified by blood type alone, but it can be a form of exclusion. If you were missing, an O+ finding of blood on sheets would mean absolutely nothing.
>>Probably a billion or so people with my blood type.<<
Likely more like 2 billion, but I digress.
>>The SLC police just announced that this was a rage killing <<
The reports say "Police BELIEVE" it was a rage killing. If they already knew it was, they would have arrested him since there was nobody else in the apartment and he apparantly doesn't deny being there. You are jumping the gun.
>>And you say we're "speculating"?<<
Uh, yeah, that's exactly what you are doing. You don't know what the police know, and no one can know for sure if what the police know is the truth. They don't know where she is, whether she's dead or alive, and thus don't know if anyone killed her.
Do you believe everything you read? I guess you still think there was a bloody ski mask at OJ's residence? That was, according to the press, a very important piece of evidence until it was revealed in an initial hearing that it didn't exist.
You still haven't answered my question: what is your hurry in convicting this guy? There will be plenty of time to demand the death penalty for whoever is convicted of a murder, if it occured here. Why are you potentially setting yourself up to be wrong if something turns out to not be as reported?
If I am not mistaken wasn't that the one where he was a famous Lawyer and she worked for a State Congressman? Also if I remember correctly the only reason he was caught is because his brother finally broke down and said that his brother had him help dump the cooler and when they dumpted it the lid came open and he saw a leg.
The case you're thinking of was the murder of Anne Marie Fahey, scheduling secretary to Gov Tom Carper of Delaware. Sad case.
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