Hmong Journey

mercury news | July 18, 2004 | Ben Stocking

[television is just wrong]

Posted on Sun, Jul. 18, 2004

Hmong journey

By Ben Stocking

Mercury News Vietnam Bureau

WAT THAM KRABOK, Thailand - Teng Yang and his family live on the other side of the earth from the home they will soon make in California. But in many ways, they inhabit another universe.

If they get sick, they slaughter a pig and two chickens as offerings to the spirits. A 13-year-old bride, a man with two wives -- these are accepted social arrangements in the dusty squatters' colony where they have spent the past 11 years of their drifters' lives.

Teng and his family -- a Hmong clan of 27 people from the jungles of Laos -- are moving to Fresno, a middle-class, Central Valley town whose social mores will be as baffling to them as the drive-through line at McDonald's.

Over the next several months, 15,000 other Laotian Hmong who live at this makeshift refugee camp will follow them, most settling in California, Minnesota and Wisconsin, the three U.S. states with the largest established Hmong populations.

Teng's younger brother Tong and his wife arrived in Fresno last week, and the rest of the family will follow over the summer and fall.

[Barlowmaker]

We are a nation of immigrants. Foreigners don't leave their homelands for America because they are too prosperous, secure and comfortable in their current circumstances. Most immigrants are by definition poor, uneducated and illiterate. They're coming here for a chance to change that life for themselves and their children.

Given the attitudes and animus to newly arrived immigrants we see from too many on this forum, is it any wonder that unfamiliar, insecure newcomers would eschew assimilation into American cultural society and instead seek the destructive insularity and dependence institutionalized by the socialist Welfare industry?

I mean, why as Conservatives wouldn't we embrace the addition of new citizens (like Mexican laborers) who are devout Christians, loyal family members and hard workers? Instead, these people are shunned, they are ostracized and isolated, and they naturally fall into the welcoming arms of the identity group enslavers.

The Mexicans sneak here because they seek a more prosperous and secure life for their families. Welcomed and rewarded for their honest productive efforts, they'll accomplish it to the greater good of society. Reviled and shunned, they'll find it in the destructive arms of the Democrats.

The demagoguing of the illegal immigration issue is a strategic campaign designed to demonize Conservatives and sabotage George W. Bush's re-election prospects. It is ugly, ugly business.

[Dr. Marten]

Don't waste your time telling me. I already know what it means to be American. Hell, I have served my country twice already. (I'm not a liberal as Mr. Kozak would like to belive) Try telling Mr. Kozak.

[dennisw]

Get real. What you wrote made a lot of sense until the word Hmong. I'd love to have our refugee settlement agencies send boatloads of Hmong to your county and suck off your welfare. And violate your state's anti polygamy laws.

[dennisw]

I mean, why as Conservatives wouldn't we embrace the addition of new citizens (like Mexican laborers) who are devout Christians, loyal family members and hard workers?

Are you talking illegal or legal. I doubt it makes a difference to you. You like those cute little Mexican serfs doing your scut work and dry walling your house for cheap.

[Kozak]

So your position is that the US should take in any and all comers from wherever in the world in whatever numbers? Regardless of the costs ( not just monetary )on the current citizens?

Funny I thought the US government was supposed to operate in the interests of it's citizens. You seem to think it's major obligation is to the Citizen's of the World.

It is hardly in the interest of US citizens to have an endless stream of uneducated, unskilled, cheap labor pouring uncontrolled into the country. California is the poster child of your starry eyed vision of open borders. Can't build schools fast enough, health care in crisis, housing costs through the roof. Becoming a third world culture with a thin skin of the wealthy served by a large underclass of poverty.

I AM the child of immigrants. BUT the situation has been completely transformed from that period. Immigration was tightly controlled and very limited. My father needed a job BEFORE he arrived here. We received no DIRECT government aid ( and spare me the blather about the roads or the existing sewage system!) no ones pocket was picked on April 15 for us. We were aware of THE DEAL. You come here, you learn English, you adjust to the culture and you become AMERICANS. I served in the USAF practicing nuclear weapon delivery against my cousins ( actual not figurative)in the Red Army. And I would not have hesitated to do so if called by my country. That doesn't mean I have forgotten my ancestry. I learned my ancestral language and culture, but all done privately by the immigrant community, not at taxpayer cost. IF THAT MODEL OF IMMIGRATION HELD, limited to OUR NEEDS as a country, CONTROLLED, unsubsidized by the taxpayer, and with the aim of rapid integration into the existing US culture I would wholeheartedly support it. Sadly the Melting Pot model broken.

This started as a discussion of the Hmong immigrants. I will fully concede that a few thousand or even hundred thousand will not damage or transform the US. I still resent the fact that local taxpayers in this area will face a burden we didn't get asked to assume. However the open massive unregulated immigration you seem to advocate will end up having costs and consequences that we can't even begin to imagine. It would be nice if someone actually LISTENED to the citizens of our country on this topic .

[Kozak]

You sure have the liberal trademarks of:


I mean well so the actual impact of my actions is irrelevant.

I mean well so let someone else pay for the my largesse.

I mean well so I can reduce my argument to name calling.

[Barlowmaker]

Nobody asked me if we should let another ragtag family of Russians into the U.S.

We have too many Russians here in the United States already. You should go back where you came from.

Take Yakoff Smirnov and Alexi Kovalev with you. Please.

America for the Americans.

[Dr. Marten]

Dude, you dont know me. You are probably closer to being a liberal than I would ever be. If it were up to me, I would do away with 70% of the government aid programs that exist today.

You can not read back through my posts and find anything that mentioned a single word about giving them GOVERNMENT FUNDING.

You simply throw out the word liberal in order to cover up the fact that you are wrong and have no real facts to support your claims.

[Barlowmaker]

Are you talking illegal or legal. I doubt it makes a difference to you. You like those cute little Mexican serfs doing your scut work and dry walling your house for cheap.

Now we're finding some truth. It's not the legal or illegal status of the immigrants that drives you crazy. It's the fact that they are here at all. Competing for the plum jobs scrubbing toilets, laying sod and cleaning up puke laden Panama Beach hotel rooms. For "cheap".

If we took every illegally resident foreign national and walked them across the border, then immediately processed them with legally obtained visitor visas and returned them to their homes and jobs, you folks would still be bonkers. It's not that the competitive and more productive immigrant labor force is here illegally, it is that they are here at all.

You people are dismal. This entire scandal is a lie. Union goons protecting their scams and bigots rationalizing their rage.

[Kozak]

Dude, look at the CONSEQUENCES of YOUR POSITION.
The fact is that the immigrants WILL GET a nice steaming heap of federal dollars, followed by years and years of funds from the local state and county government. Those are the facts.

I at least tried to make a rational argument with some info to back up my position. You provided non. YOU then resorted to name calling. Thats chapter and verse out of the Liberal playbook.

[Kozak]

Hey, Dr Martens position was that I was using parochial local info and that it didn't reflect the larger picture.

I'm not writing a scientific peer review paper here jack. Just do a little google work. If you can REFUTE me I will be THRILLED to learn how wealthy and accomplished and successful these people are.

[Kozak]

By the way Jackass, I feel the same way about new immigrants from the former Soviet Union if they come here to scam benefits, which sadly many of them do. How about a little moratorium on immigration so we can catch our breath and figure out whats in OUR interest as a NATION?

[Dr. Marten]

Gee, I've never read the liberal 'playbook'.

Aside from knowing what I do about the Hmong, the reason I'm not making a stink about their coming here is mainly due to the support they gave us during the Vietnam war and the persecution that they now face in their own country.

But, if you like turning your back on people who have helped you...why stop now right?

[Modernman]

10 years in this case since it's a refugee scam. How many of these Hmong were even alive during the Vietnam war?

The reason they're refugees is because they were our allies 30 years ago.

I guess we should just ditch our allies whenever it becomes inconvenient or the 10 year limit has run out.

[Kozak]

Once again like a classic liberal, you won't address the point, ie the cost, change the subject and launch a personal attack. You know what Doc, run along and the adults debate.

[Dr. Marten]

Did I say that there weren't any costs involved? I thought that was just a given.

I didn't just pick the Hmong people out to defend at random. If it were some other group that I had never heard of and that had never put their livlihood at stake for my country's benefit, I would probably wouldn't give it a second look. However, that is not the case.

I simply believe in making good on debts and that is the only reason the government is bringing these people here.

If you want to complain about costs, why don't you make a big stink about all the illegal Mexicans that the government is basically doing nothing about, eh? They cost us a hell of a lot more than the Hmong.

You try to paint me as a liberal for resulting to personal attacks, but you counter with the same action. You are the pot calling the kettle black.

[dennisw]

Dittos. We have 300,00 Hmong and they are a noxious burden, not a blessing. A burden due to their unprecedented mooching off our welfare systems due to the fact that they just came out of the freaking jungle! 30 years of taking them in is enough.

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=hmong+welfare&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&c2coff=1&selm=19971109063401.BAA20397%40ladder02.news.aol.com&rnum=1

[jimt]

Don't blame the Hmong, who we actually owe a debt of gratitude to.

Indeed, they supported us in Viet Nam.

As opposed to illegal aliens, who we don't owe anything to, except a swift deportation, along with their anchor babies.

[Chummy]

One big caveat from the outset: this July 21, 2004 Press Release from Governor Doyle makes repeated reference to various government agencies giving money, and we all know that means us. Another caveat is that I only offer this information to, as you requested, refute you and thrill you with these facts.

* * * * * * *

At First Meeting of Advisory Task Force, Governor Doyle Outlines Further Steps State Will Take to Manage Hmong Resettlement Wisconsin Expected to Receive 3,600 Hmong Refugees by the End of the Year

At the first meeting of the Special Advisory Task Force on Hmong Resettlement today, Governor Jim Doyle outlined further steps his Administration will take to oversee the successful resettlement of thousands of Hmong refugees in Wisconsin. The Governor has appointed the Task Force to oversee the resettlement of up to 3,600 Hmong refugees who have been living in a compound in Thailand for many years and are expected to immigrate to Wisconsin.

“By the end of the year, thousands of Hmong refugees will call Wisconsin home,” Governor Doyle said.

“We are a nation of immigrants, and the response of communities across the state in preparing for our
new arrivals is heartening. Just as these communities are getting ready to welcome our new Hmong families, my Administration is working on ways to ease the transition for this new wave of immigrants.”

Earlier this month, when the Governor first announced formation of the task force, he also announced that he will provide an additional $1 million for local W-2 agencies in counties where many refugees will settle and $300,000 in federal money to assess the health of refugees and refer those needing treatment to medical providers.

Today, Governor Doyle further detailed efforts his Administration will undertake to facilitate the
resettlement of the Hmong refugees:

• The Department of Workforce Development (DWD) will receive nearly $504,000 in new Refugee Targeted Assistance from the federal government. This funding will supplement efforts to help refugees find work, meet their health care needs, offer counseling as necessary, and provide a
variety of other services.

• DWD will also provide $100,000 in Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF) funds to support an English for Southeast Asian Children program in the Wausau public school system. The Child Tutoring Program (CTP) provides language and literacy development for 4-year-old TANF
eligible English Language Learners and is provided free of charge to the children and their families.

• The Wisconsin Housing and Economic Development Authority (WHEDA) is moving swiftly on several fronts to address housing needs.

1. WHEDA is working closely with local housing agencies and community groups to find suitable housing. In doing so, they are creating a system to identify available rental property and more quickly provide contact information.

2. WHEDA is translating the standard subsidized housing lease agreement into the Hmong language. Now, interpreters assisting refugees won’t have to translate such complex
documents on the spot. Instead, they can read the standard agreements aloud to refugees, enabling them to easily understand and take part in decisions affecting them.

3. WHEDA is also looking to make use of homes acquired due to foreclosures or other reasons for temporary housing, as well as long-term ownership opportunities.

The Department of Health and Family Services is providing aid to assist in the resettlement effort. State and federal funding will provide Medicaid benefits to all eligible families and individuals. Food stamps will also be provided to those who qualify.

“I am committed to doing as much as we can to help our new residents become self-sufficient, and I believe we can help them without posing an undue burden on state taxpayers,” Governor Doyle said...

The Task Force is charged with making recommendations on system improvements, best practices, employment connections, housing, citizenship, and access to needed services to successfully integrate the new refugee population into the state. The Governor also charged the task force today with the following:

• Study the data about the Hmong population, and learn about their demographics, distribution, and needs

• Examine the efforts of DWD, WHEDA, DHFS, and local private and public agencies in the resettlement process

• Provide a link to your communities so that local agencies and individuals can have their voices heard by policy-makers in the Capitol

• Make recommendations for changes in policy, new activities, and partnerships to improve the resettlement process

• Help tell the story of the Hmong in Wisconsin as a success story in the history of our state

The Hmong assisted the United States during the Vietnam War, when they were recruited by the CIA in the fight against Communist rebels in Laos. More than 300,000 Hmong, fearing retribution after the Communist takeover in 1975, fled to neighboring Thailand. This group of refugees are among the last remaining Hmong in Thailand.

There are almost 50,000 Hmong refugees and descendents living throughout Wisconsin. The first wave of Hmong in Wisconsin has been very successful. More than half own their own homes, 90 percent are gainfully employed, and the median income for the Hmong in Wisconsin is far above
the median for other Hmong populations in the United States.

The Governor has appointed Kaying Xiong as chair of the Task Force. Xiong is principal of Locust Lane Elementary School in Eau Claire, and is the first Hmong principal in the United States.

* * * * * * *

Again, anyone who has read my posts on FR or heard me speak, or otherwise knows me knows I am neither a supporter nor fan of the Gov or the Dem Party. But facts you asked for and facts is what you now have.

Speaking of doing "a little google work", I would suggest you do the same to learn more about the contributions of the Hmong during the Vietnam War. It's more than obvious your claims to know are about as solid as that 10-year old article or some anecdotal and questionable perceptions you apparently harbor.

[Dr. Marten]

Re: #132

"By the way Jackass"

What? It seems that you have a habit of making personal attacks when someone doesn't agree with your point of view. By your own standards, I guess makes you a liberal.