Posted on 07/13/2004 12:04:37 AM PDT by ladylibertyok
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Arnold un-Reagan-like
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted: June 21, 2004 1:00 a.m. Eastern
© 2004 WorldNetDaily.com
Now that a decent interval has passed since the moving tributes and funeral of the late Ronald Reagan, maybe it's time to comment on something unseemly that took place before the late president was laid to rest.
There was Margaret Thatcher, the former prime minister of Great Britain, standing next to California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger.
Thatcher recited the Pledge of Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America – not her own flag.
Schwarzenegger, an American running the executive branch of government of the largest state in the union, did not.
I didn't notice it when it took place. It was brought to my attention by a caller to my radio program. I had to go back and check the tapes. Sure enough, the caller was right.
Since then, other people who witnessed the funeral have told me they noticed it right away.
I wonder how many millions of people around the world took notice?
This troubles me.
I always liked Schwarzenegger's movies. But I've never liked him as a politician. I don't think he has any principles, any deeply held convictions, any beliefs beyond what the pollsters and the media advisers tell him.
Most of the positions he has taken are wrong. And when he takes the right position on an issue, you never know if he will reverse himself the following week.
Now this.
How can one explain why the governor of California, of all people, would not say the Pledge of Allegiance at an internationally televised funeral for Ronald Reagan? What was he thinking? Was it an oversight of some kind? Was he so in awe of the event that he lost himself? Is it possible he doesn't know the words? Maybe it's time for a crash course.
I've tried to think about this in ways in which I could give him the benefit of the doubt.
But I'm deeply troubled by it.
How embarrassing for our nation.
On the one hand, Lady Thatcher says the pledge though no one would expect her to do so. She's a British citizen who should not be expected to pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America. But she did. And she is standing next to a man who has chosen America as his adopted homeland – a man in a high-profile elected office – and he refuses to say it.
To me, this is more egregious than Bill and Hillary Clinton apparently dozing off during the eulogies at the National Cathedral. That bit of rudeness should be expected from a couple of cheap politicians. But I can't even imagine Bill or Hillary failing to say the Pledge of Allegiance – not when they know the whole world is watching.
I think Arnold Schwarzenegger needs to explain himself.
After all, Sen. Orin Hatch, R-Utah, has introduced legislation in the U.S. Congress to amend the Constitution so that the foreign-born Schwarzenegger could someday run for president. I don't expect that amendment to go anywhere, but, nevertheless, it has been introduced.
And Schwarzenegger is still the governor of California – the state, ironically enough, from where the latest challenge to the Pledge of Allegiance, and its "under God" phrase, went all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court.
He needs to explain himself and apologize for the poor etiquette and unpatriotic attitude he displayed during the Reagan funeral. It was a slight not only to the United States of America, but to the late president.
Comparisons have actually been drawn between Schwarzenegger and Reagan. Reagan, an actor, launched his political career as governor of California. But, as far as I'm concerned, that's where the comparisons stop.
We all knew Ronald Reagan. And Arnold Schwarzenegger is no Ronald Reagan.
"This really troubles me too folks!! I don't think something like this should be over looked. There is absolutely no reason why he shouldn't be saying the Pledge of Allegiance. He's the governor of "Culifawnya" for pete's sake. Last time I looked at a map, it was still part of the USA. Like the author, I find him to be lacking in political beliefs and I think he only ran for governor because he is so obsessed with power. Am I off the mark on this or what?? I noticed no one else in the media picked up on it. Not surprising!!!"
Wait.. are you saying the Pledge of Allegiance wasn't said at the funeral? I missed some of funeral that day and wasn't watching that part...
ROFL... excellent point!
Wonderful to see you again, BTW :-)
So McClintock, that is - was appointed to his currect position?
Silly Strawman... he said McClintock "often" loses. Which he does, unfortunately, I like his platform.
The recall was a half-a-loaf versus no loaf when it came to injecting solid social and fiscal conservatism into California. I'm not surprised you are a no-loaf sorta fella.
But, I'm not sure I'd have said the Pledge either. Not because I have any opposition to it, but because I think a funeral is a very odd place to be saying the Pledge of Allegiance. I'd have no problem saying it in other places, and in other circumstances, and have done so. But at a funeral? I can see why some might disagree with that, but it seems out of place to me at that event.
I'm a huge fan of Thatcher's -- even have an autographed copy of her first book. Her appearance at Reagan's funeral was wonderful, and was probably the one I enjoyed seeing the most. Lech Walesa kneeling and praying is up there too. But that being said, it also strikes me as a bit odd that Thatcher would have said the Pledge. I'm not condemning her or criticizing her for that, but I'd have understood the obvious reason had she chosen not to do so.
Anyway, anyone who is tossing around communist/Howard Stern accusations because someone doesn't condemn Schwartzenegger for not saying the Pledge really needs to get a hobby.
There are a lot of reasons he may not have spoken. He may have been choked up and not trusted his voice. He may have felt awkward about how his voice might carry and sound with his accent -- any number of things. For a nutjob like Farah to demand that the Governor come out and explain himself to Farah is a bad joke.
I don't think I heard that Joe had died. I knew who he was, but I don't think I ever met him. Sorry to hear about it.
Yes I did, and you're right. Truly sad. ;)
Yes, that's what I'm saying. No the pledge was not said at the funeral. As other Freepers have mentioned, that recitation would be odd at a funeral.
Arnold did go as a rep to the U.S. on the request of Pres. Bush. But he also made a side trip to Graz (His hometown) to yuk it up with friends and relatives and assorted others. It said in a paper I read that the Gov.'s aides tried to keep quiet the side trip to Graz. Wonder why?? I didn't see a big deal about that. What I thought was a big deal that further in the article it said that the late Pres. of Austria sat in on Gov. meetings in Sacremento and that Arnold had a brief interview with a local paper there in Austria and said he was in Graz to visit friends and discuss politics with his fellow Austrians. The politics were of a local nature and California politics about tips with the budget. This bothers me. Since when are we allowing foreigners give their two cents worth in domestic issues? I'm talking about the Pres. of Austria sitting in on Gov. meetings and Arnold talking with the Graz people about California matters. This to me is what the problem is with dual citizenship!!!
Well, that settles this ridiculous thread then, thanks! :-)
I did think it a bit odd that the Pledge was recited but then thought maybe it was because it was a State Funeral or Reagan had requested it.
Live and learn ;-)
Great post
Then you're calling Joe Farah a liar. He said it was. Not only that, he says he saw it himself on his tape of the event. That's how that original post read.
Well, not only that, but you are calling Joe Farah a liar. You can see in that article that he says callers directed him to this moment with Arnold. And he reviewed his own tape of the event and saw the same.
He should be criticized, certainly, particularly if Lady Thatcher, who was so ill that she couldn't even offer the eulogy back in DC, that day, from the podium but rather from a taped interview from weeks or months before, was able to recite the Pledge. She's not even a citizen of this country. Now you said that someone else also refused to say the Pledge, and that it was entirely inappropriate for a memorial service to a fallen US President? Well, then he was wrong, too. And I think you're wrong. I disagree with you.
That is, what the heck, in your opinion, is so wrong with someone saying - The Pledge of Allegiance?
If I remember correctly, when I was in the first grade it began, "I led the pigeons, to the flag".
I'm only telling you what my tape of the event shows. I think Farrah is mistaken. My tape shows the funeral procession from Point Magu through the time when people were saying their last good-byes at the casket after the funeral.
Uh, I think you've got the wrong poster. I never called him a liar, nor did I say that the Pledge was not a part of the service. I have no idea if it was or not. What I did call him was a nutjob for demanding an explanation from Schwartzenegger, and I stand by that.
He should be criticized, certainly, particularly if Lady Thatcher, who was so ill that she couldn't even offer the eulogy back in DC, that day, from the podium but rather from a taped interview from weeks or months before, was able to recite the Pledge.
I love Thatcher, but the idea of a presumably loyal citizen of another country saying the Pledge strikes me as odd.
She's not even a citizen of this country.
Exactly. Does she really "pledge allegiance" to a foreign government? Singing the national anthem is different, but reciting the Pledge....
Now you said that someone else also refused to say the Pledge, and that it was entirely inappropriate for a memorial service to a fallen US President? Well, then he was wrong, too. And I think you're wrong. I disagree with you.
I said it looked like McFarlane wasn't saying it either in the picture on the first page of this thread. I don't know if he actually said it or not. I know you disagree about the Pledge and like I said, I think its something about which patriotic Americans can disagree. Does that make me a commie or Howard Stern listener? Because that's the nature of the comments to which I was responding.
That is, what the heck, in your opinion, is so wrong with someone saying - The Pledge of Allegiance?
Did you read my post? I have no problem with saying the Pledge. Do it all the time. But my grandmother died about a year and a half ago. And if part of the service had been the Pledge of Allegiance, I'd have been flabbergasted. Politics has no place at a funeral. It's a time to celebrate/mourn the deceased.
Reagan's funeral obviously was different from my grandmothers because he was a political man, and you couldn't eulogise his life without talking about his political accomplishments. And that's fine. References to his accomplishments is essential. Just as references to my grandmother's accomplishments were necessary at hers. But the Pledge still strikes me as just misplaced in that context. I wouldn't say the Pledge at my Grandma's funeral, so why at Reagan's?
One thing I do resent is the implication that I lack patriotism because of my views on this. I fought under this country's flag, supported Reagan, George Bush, Dubya, and what we're doing now both in Afghanistan and in Iraq. I resigned my commission rather than serve under Clinton. There's just a time and place for everything, and, IMHO, a funeral is not the right time/place for the Pledge of Allegiance.
As a former head of a foreign state, IMO it would have been inappropriate for Thatcher to swear allegence to the U.S. Singing the U.S. National anthem doesn't carry the same weight, and would be entirely proper. I agree with your comment regarding the pledge during a funeral service. Singing the national anthem in honor of statesman who has passed on does seem proper to me.
From www.richw.org/dualcit
Most of the laws forbidding dual citizenship were struck down in 1967 by the US Supreme Court. The court's decision in this case, Afroyim v. Rusk, as well as a second case in 1980, Vance v. Terrazas, eventually made its way explicitly into the statute books in 1986; up till that time, the old laws were still on the books, but the State Department was effectively under court order to ignore them.
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