Karina: Am I Conservative, Rush?

RUSH: Karina in Davie, Florida, this is where the Miami Dolphins train. Hello, Karina and welcome to the program.

CALLER: Hi, Rush, thanks for taking my call. I'm a new listener. I just turned 24, I've been listening for maybe about six months, and before I started listening to you I thought I was a liberal. No questions about it. But after listening to you, I'm not real sure anymore. I still consider myself a liberal, but--

CALLER: -- I'm going to vote for Bush. So I need your help to finding, I guess, my political party.

RUSH: Okay, this is going to require some conversation. I'll be glad to tell you about this when we come back. I want to change my battery here. I hope I have a spare battery. Well, I always do, I always care a spare battery in the briefcase, so I'll switch batteries here in the break Karina. You just turned 24, you're a new listener, I want to find out first, it's important, how you found this show. We've been here 16 years.

RUSH: Let's go back now to Karina in Davie, Florida. All right, it's great to be able to talk to you, Karina, be able to hear you.

RUSH: So you're 24, you've been listening for about six months. How did you find the program?

CALLER: My boyfriend Tom. He started listening to your show, and I just figured let me start listening. He would come home from work and he'd start talking about your show, and I'd have no idea what he's talking about, so I started listening, and, you know, we go home, we could talk about the show and what's going on. And everything that, you know, we talk about what you said and stuff like that.

CALLER: When I was growing up I was taught that Republicans are for the rich and Democrats are for the poor, and I figured, well, I'm not rich, so I must be a Democrat. But then I have liberal ideas, like I believe in pro-choice.

RUSH: Now, there's got to be a reason for that. Obviously on some social issues, some cultural issues, you lean more to the left, but yet Kerry doesn't appeal to you. Why?

CALLER: I have a three-year-old daughter, and I just don't feel safe with him in the office. I think Bush, he's going to take charge, I feel safer with him in the White House. I think Kerry, something bad would happen, and I'm just thinking about my daughter.

RUSH: All right, now, it says here on the subject line that you called because -- I hope this is right -- you need help defining yourself politically?

CALLER: Well, because I hear your show, and you said that people who are liberals call themselves moderates. I'm pretty much confused. I don't know what I am. I have liberal ideas, but I also have conservative ideas. So, you know, which one am I?

RUSH: Well, we could go through some questions, and we could, you know, give you a little test here --

RUSH: -- and come out with an overall score. That's one way of doing it. There's an overarching definition here, and I went through it a little bit yesterday. Let me try it again. And this, to some people, it would be simplistic, but it would be a good starting point.

RUSH: Take the universe of the American people. We all want, for the most part, I mean there are some exceptions to this, we all want the same things in life. We want freedom; we want the chance for prosperity; we want to be the best we can be; we want as few people suffering as possible, economically; we want to have healthy children; we want to have crime-free streets; all these things, they're pretty common. Doesn't matter what race you are, doesn't matter what gender you are, doesn't matter what sexual orientation you are, these are the things we want. The arguments is how to achieve them.

Now, the American left, or liberals believe, that the individual, on balance, is not capable of providing all of those things him or herself, because American left believes that most people are not equipped to make the best judgments for themselves, they're not equipped to access the economy and do the best for themselves economically.

The American Conservative, the right, believes that freedom is the essence of life in America and that freedom allows everybody to seek whatever it is they want and need on their own terms and that they are far better equipped to get what they want and need than a central government distributing things to people based on what that government thinks people should want and should need.

RUSH: So where do you come down on that? I mean, do you want the government to be responsible for your income? Do you want the government to be responsible for your child's future? Do you want to have to depend, in essence, on somebody else to satisfy your wants and needs or would you rather satisfy those wants and needs yourself, with your family and so forth? How would you answer that?

CALLER: Well, see, that's a good question because I get help because I go to school, so I'm getting help from the government, but I'm not going to be depending on it. I only have maybe a year or more before I get my degree and then I'm not going to be getting the financial help anymore.

CALLER: So I get my tuition paid and I get, you know, my daughter's day care paid.

CALLER: So Tom tells me, he's my boyfriend, he tells me that liberals believe that the government has to help you, and then they become dependent on it.

RUSH: Well, he's right in this sense. See now, this is what I believe based on having seen it. These are big arguments that ensue from this, but I think whereas in the case of your Pell grant, your education and this sort of thing, I don't find anything wrong with assistance to people who are trying to improve themselves, who intend to pay back some of this assistance, and you're doing it for reasons that -- I mean you're doing it, you're going to school -- you're accessing an opportunity, you're not depending on somebody else to get through life, so you're actually depending on yourself here.

The problem with the American left is that when it comes to the so-called social safety net or social programs, their ultimate belief is -- and if you listen to John Edwards and Kerry talk about this -- you'll hear them talk about the two Americas. They look at America and they see soup lines, homeless people, they see nothing but suffering out there, and they want you and everybody else to believe that exists because too many people have gotten wealthy, and have stolen money from the whole aggregate amount of money that should otherwise go to people like you and others who aren't doing well. And so what they want to do is make you think that you're getting the shaft and you're being treated unfairly, and the way they're going to fix it is to take money from the people who have more than you do, because it's not right that they have more than you do, and redistribute it to all the rest, or the people who don't have as much. And this is supposed to make people like you feel good that the people doing better than you are going to be punished because they have more than you do, and this is called class envy, and what they try to do is make you feel happy, not when good things happen to you but when bad things happen to other people.

CALLER: Okay. Well, then the answer to your question would be no, I think the government should give you a helping hand but then you should be responsible for your own --

RUSH: All right, now, when you say that the government should give you a helping hand, I want you to keep in mind who the government is. Who do you think -- when you say the government should give you a helping hand -- who is that? Where does the government get its money?

RUSH: Right. So essentially, when you boil this all down, take the emotion out of this for just a second, essentially when people say, "Yeah, I think government should provide my health care or I think the government should take care of my education, the government should--" what you're really saying is that your fellow citizens should.

RUSH: Well, of course they're not going to say that, the liberals are not going to say that, but their policies do just that. And they do it in the basis of fairness and equality, and who could oppose fairness and equality, everybody is for fairness, right?

RUSH: What is fair? Nothing about life is fair. Everything that happens in life, some days are good, some days are bad. Everybody deals with things as they happen. And the left has been very successful in creating this notion that the government is an independent source of money and benevolently distributes it to people in need, but before they get that money they have to take it from somebody else.

Now, we Americans are compassionate people. This is the mitigating effect. We Americans are compassionate people. We were the prosperous nation of the earth, we are the most well-off people, there's nowhere on earth where life is as good as it is in this country despite what you hear various liberals like Kerry and Edwards say. So we don't want people to suffer. I don't want my fellow citizens to suffer and I don't want people to be in pain and I don't want people to not be treated for, you know, serious medical problems and this sort of thing, so the American people have agreed in their compassion that when there is a genuine need among people who are having trouble, they may be trying but they're not really at that point in their lives able to help themselves, we're more than willing to chip in and help.

The objective, though, is to provide the kind of help that teaches people to eventually learn to provide for themselves because that's where pride in one's self comes from, that's where the sense of achievement comes from, the sense of accomplishment. When you do it yourself. When you buy your own car instead of having somebody give it to you, you'll appreciate it much more, you'll care for it better, you'll feel a sense of achievement and accomplishment. This is what the American left doesn't want you to feel, in my opinion. They want you to stay -- not you personally -- they want people to stay dependent because that's where the American left derives its power, people needing them.

We conservatives define compassion this way: not by counting the number of people who get help and who get aid, but by counting the number of people who don't need it anymore. They've been helped in such a way that they are able now to go out and be self-sufficient and productive and contributing to society. You sound like the latter. You sound like somebody accessing a government program to get an education, and you intend to do this so that you can improve yourself and all that. Now, there may be people in this audience who still think that there ought not be Pell grants, people in all walks of life who think that [doing impression] "I didn't get any help going to school, I worked four jobs, why can't they?" There are those people that exist. The fact is the program's there and until it's taken away, you access it --

RUSH: In a sense, yeah. Yeah. Where some of this gets confused, let's go back to, you said that you're pro-choice and you are for gay marriage.

RUSH: Those are cultural issues. And it's a crying shame that abortion has become a political issue that has been identified as left or right. It has become a political issue because the Supreme Court made up a right in the Constitution that's in there in order to allow it to happen. That turned it political because the Constitution is a political document. And it's just unfortunate. What we hope is, is that there will be a never ending respect for the sanctity of life and that, you know, all life is precious, and you can argue about where it begins and all this sort of thing. People practically know that no matter what you do, no law is going to stop abortion. Legal or not, it's going to happen.

So the objective is not to point fingers in people's face and say, "You can't do that, you shouldn't do that." The objective, long term, is to change people's hearts and minds and eventually get to the point -- don't even get to where you need an abortion. Be serious about this, be serious about having a child and if you're not ready for one, don't. And certainly don't have a child because there's a government program out there to pay for it like AFDC. The American welfare system got so bloated at one point that it became profitable for unmarried women to have kids because the government, state and federal, would pay them to take care of them. This led to all kinds of dissolution of families in certain poor communities around the country because it obviated the need for a father. If the government is going to pay you to have a baby or a series of babies, what do you need to get married, what do you need a man around for? You don't. And this was also part of a devious plan, I think, to create power in government, create need in single women and so forth. These things are very hideous because to me they end up doing great damage to people. It's not good for the babies born that way, it's certainly not good for the mothers. But it's still not worth aborting them.

CALLER: So if I agree with pro-choice, the woman's right to choose, am I then agreeing with abortion? Because I already had a daughter, I could never see myself having an abortion, but I liked having the choice, it was my choice with what I wanted to do.

CALLER: If I say I'm for pro-choice, that a woman should decide, then am I saying yes, I'm okay with abortion?

RUSH: Yeah, because in the American political context today pro-choice just means pro-abortion. And I can illustrate it for you this way. This has happened. I have reported it, I have seen it. You can have an abortion clinic side by side with a place that tries to convince women not to have the abortion, but to bring them in, counsel them, have the baby and put it up for adoption. The abortion clinic people argue with that. The abortion clinic people try to keep women from going to these family planning places that will lead to adoption, because abortion has become a political issue, abortion is become a sacrament to feminism. Abortion is how they establish their independence and identity and that's why the Democratic Party supports it. So in the political context today yes, to answer your question, pro-choice simply means pro-abortion because there is a political objective furthered with each abortion. Now, it's interesting that you said you wouldn't do it, you liked having the choice, you wouldn't do it, but you think other people should. Now, the way I would answer that is, we all have a responsibility. You are a mother, right?

RUSH: So you want to set the best example for your child possible. You have to provide leadership because your child is young and malleable and doesn't know anything other than what you're going to teach them, as, is it a daughter or son?

RUSH: Little girl, as your little girl grows up. I assure you I'm imposing nothing on you, I just want you to think about it. If you have a personal view that abortion is not for you and you don't like it, then it's important, if it's that important for you to have that view, then it's okay to say that. Most people don't want the controversy of getting into arguments with people who disagree with them, so they say, "Well, I would never do it, but I will never stand in her way or anybody else's way of doing it." And, understandably so, you shouldn't. But at the same time, it's important that you not let your actual belief be watered down simply because of your desire to be tolerant and understanding with somebody else's. If your belief is worth holding, it's worth living. So, on balance here, I'm going to call you a rock-ribbed conservative.

RUSH: Rock, because you're leaning that way, and I can tell by the way you're reacting to this that you're open to it, and you get it.

RUSH: You don't feel like arguing with me about it, you haven't yet told me I'm full of it or wrong.

RUSH: I'm glad he did, too. It's been a sheer delight talking to you. You call back any time you have a question.

RUSH: In fact, Karina, hang on because I want to get your phone number. We're going to check in with you periodically. We're not going to wait for you to call, you may not get through. So we'll check with you periodically to see if you have any other questions, and we'll use you, because you're a perfect demographic, you're 24, you're trying to figure all this stuff out and understand it, we'll stay in touch with you, okay?

RUSH: Hey, Karina, I know you're still out there, what we're going to do, I forgot to do this because I was up against a time constraint here. Brett, call her back, we're going to make her a subscriber to the website, her boyfriend, and to the newsletter. I mean, what better way to reinforce her instincts than to do that. And Koko -- talking here to the webmaster -- I want to put this call on the free side of the website with a transcript, make an MP3 out of it for people to be able to download and spread the word.

There are some solid points made in this thread; I used to be uncomfortable with Rush's style, but I thought he showed himself to be honest and mature and had a lot of integrity when he had his medication problems. This call is an excellent example of using common ground to bring everyone closer. Someone mentioned the common misconception that Republicans are rich, I think things like the Pell grant AS AN ALTERNATIVE to traditional government handouts are an excellent rebuttal to that notion. It's what the compassion in compassionate conservatism is all about. The Conservative part is that you're expected to qualify by pursuing education, which specifically enables you to get a job. Once you have the education, no more money except what you earn.

Of course life isn't fair, and just because some people's parents can afford to pay for their school doesn't mean that the govenrment should step in for everyone. But since we live in a world where the government does intervene through social programs, and that's not likely to change, Limbaugh demonstrated that there's room for compassion without compromising the value of integrity to your beliefs and being accountable to yourself.

My conservatism is based on my Christianity, and how Jesus lived His life. He helped those who needed it, and as Rush said, Americans are compassionate and do help those who need it. Of course that doesn't mean that the government should do everything. But the fact that this woman, despite all the influences to the contrary, had her child and is raising her thoughtfully, makes me glad that she's getting some help from the government to become more self-sufficient. It may be controversial to some conservatives (and the above discussion illustrates it) but I do think it's both compassionate and conservative.

You are confusing grants with tax deductions. In case you weren't aware, money spent on education for one's profession is currently tax deductable.

Amazing. Clinton would be proud of your ability to compartmentalize.

Call it a 'grant'. Call it a 'tax deduction'. Call it what you will, it still involves you gaining financially from a government program intended to promote a certain behavior.

In the Pell Grant case, the intention is to encourage and enable people to further their education. A worthy goal that not only helps the individual but helps the country.

In the mortgage tax deduction case, the intention is to encourage and enable people to purchase and own a house.

The fact you don't see what these two programs have in common tells me you consider the mortgage deduction to be an entitlement.

I didn't get a government grant to buy my house.

The manner of financial transfer is irrelevant. Grant or deduction, you still received money as part of a Federal Government program.

But perhaps I would have been able to afford a house a bit sooner if my taxes were lower from not being forced to pay to subsidize others.

Yes, and perhaps this gal could afford to pay her tuition if her taxes were lower from not being forced to subsidize home owners.

In the Pell Grant case, the intention is to encourage and enable people to further their education. A worthy goal that not only helps the individual but helps the country.

Did you get that from the Kerry.com web site or did you come up with that yourself? ALL liberal social welfare spending is framed that way - money spent for a worthy goal that will help the country.

The bottom line is that Pell Grants are welfare, they are a grant handed out to someone which will never be repaid, on the HOPE that they will return the benefit to society.

What about all those who took Pell Grant money and either never finished school, never got a better job, or left the work force?

I can accept loans, and I can accept tax credits since they don't involve direct payments on the HOPE that they will benefit society, I don't agree with welfare programs.

I would think that if John Kerry rather than Rush Limbaugh came out in favor of Pell Grants you would have a different view. It is unfortunate that blind idol worship has clouded the vision of many in realizing what Pell Grants are - a liberal program, started by democrats, to transfer confiscated money forcibly taken from hard working americans, to those unwilling to put themselves through college.

How you can defend government wealth-transfer programs on a Conservative web site is beyond me.

The manner of financial transfer is irrelevant. Grant or deduction, you still received money as part of a Federal Government program.

There is a huge difference between keeping more of what I earn versus getting a government handout to go to school.

You seem to think that keeping more of the money I earn is equivalent to getting a check from the government for taking some action that the government wants me to take?

In your view I should only be able to keep what the government allows, everything else ought to be used for programs to better society?

Folks, I think we've found a John Kerry mole among us.

There is a huge difference between keeping more of what I earn versus getting a government handout to go to school.

Its amazing how well government propaganda works on people like you. Let me try to break this down in simple terms.

Taxpayer A earns $100,000 on which they can expect to pay $35,000 to Uncle Sam.

Taxpayer B earns $10,000 on which they can expect to pay $3,500 to Uncle Sam.

Taxpayer C earns $100,000 on which they can expect to pay $35,000 to Uncle Sam.

Taxpayer A buys a house and benefits from a mortgage interest tax deduction that puts $3,000 back in his pocket.

Taxpayer B goes to school and gets a Pell Grant the puts $3,000 back in his pocket.

Taxpayer C lives in an apartment and doesn't go to school so gets nothing back in his pocket.

You have been so brainwashed by the government that you think Taxpayer A's $3,000 is different from Taxpayer B's $3,000. From Taxpayer C's point of view, you are both benefiting from Federal programs that he does not benefit from.

You seem to think that keeping more of the money I earn is equivalent to getting a check from the government for taking some action that the government wants me to take?

You are a fool if you don't see that you kept more money BECAUSE you ARE taking an action that the government wants you to take!!! Why should the government tax you less just because you are buying a house???? As far as Taxpayer C is concerned, A&B both benefited from programs that C does not. Both benefits are unfair to Taxpayer C.

In your view I should only be able to keep what the government allows, everything else ought to be used for programs to better society?

That's a lie. Nowhere do I say I am in favor of any of these programs. I'm simply trying to point out how hypocritical you are for bitching about others while essentially do the same thing.

Folks, I think we've found a John Kerry mole among us.

Thanks!! I know I've won the argument when you resort to name calling!

Let me know when you have a better grasp for how our government abuses the tax system.

Taxpayer A buys a house and benefits from a mortgage interest tax deduction that puts $3,000 back in his pocket.

You are looking at this from the liberal point of view. Taxpayer A keeps more of what they earn.

Pell Grant recipient gets free cash from the government, generally only qualifying if they are low tax brackets.

See the difference?

It's my money in your example that I'm keeping. In the case of Pell Grants, it is someone elses money that I'm receiving.

You are looking at this from the liberal point of view. Taxpayer A keeps more of what they earn.

Wrong. I am looking at this from a libertarian point of view. The government has no business subsidizing the housing industry.

Shouldn't I get a tax deduction for all the interest I pay on credit cards? Why should you get a tax break on interest paid for a house, but I don't not get a tax break on interest I paid for my television??

You seem to think that you tax break doesn't cost anything. Wrong. Everyone pays more so that a few, like you, can pay less. If they eliminated the housing tax deduction, then Taxpayer C might only pay $28,000 instead of $30,000. The fact that you (and many others) are getting this tax break means that the Taxpayer C's (like me) must pay more to compensate.

This is not fair.

Wrong. I am looking at this from a libertarian point of view. The government has no business subsidizing the housing industry.

I agree with you, I'm a proponent of the fair tax (e.g. national sales tax).

However, you are still missing the point. A government grant which gives a direct check to someone is much different than a tax credit, which allows people to keep more of what they earn.

One doesn't have to earn anything to qualify for a Pell Grant, and in fact, the more you earn, the less likely you are to get it.

Only if we continue to fund programs that you support such as the Pell Grant. If we cut off funding for the social welfare agenda that you embrace, we could eliminate tax breaks without requiring others to make up the difference.

So you can now be a "rock-ribbed" conseravative even if you are pro-choice, advocate gay marriage, receive governemnt grants and have a duaghter outside of wedlock? Cool!!

Do you LIKE to lose elections? We are talking about a young woman. Today, she is going to vote republican. If she continues to be engaged in the issues, she will begin examining her beliefs. Minds do not change overnight. All this while she is voting the GOP ticket.

While always inclined to be somewhat conservative, I had many competing beliefs. Over time, as I listened and read, learned about ideas and common truths behind many conservative positions, I became MUCH more conservative. It's a process.

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