Posted on 07/04/2004 6:08:42 AM PDT by TrebleRebel
Distinct signature found in ’01 anthrax Discovery raises hope that source can be traced By Scott Shane Sun National Staff Originally published July 4, 2004 In a possible break for the FBI's investigation of the anthrax letters of 2001, scientists have discovered that the mailed anthrax was a mix of two slightly different samples, giving the bacteria a distinct signature that might make it easier to match with a source, according to two non-government experts who have been told of the finding. The discovery that bacteria taken from the letters all grew in the double pattern was made at least a year ago, and it is not known whether the FBI's hunt for a matching sample has succeeded.
(Excerpt) Read more at baltimoresun.com ...
FBI - Famous, But Incompetent.
These people are morons. Where were 12 FBI agents on 9/11? Staking out a brothel in New Orleans.
Needless to say, in October most of the country will be squarely focused on the upcoming election. Of course, we'll still be paying close attention to this farce. :)
Didn't work too well did it?
And this "advance" is a weasel word. As I read it the only "advance" was since the Nov. 2003 Science article, before that was retreat on the FBI side, and mostly due to outside forces pressuring it to follow wrong info, IMO.
If I were Stevens' lawyers, I'd demand detail about why the anthrax is only being tested now - that's how the govt's arguments read.
The whole affidavit is _very_ conservative, just as one would expect. He doesn't mention Kathy Nguyen's death, which can't easily be attributed to one of the letters.
The FBI knows a lot that they aren't saying. I wonder what was in the sealed letter to the judge that just got the FBI an extension of the stay.
We don't know what the FBI is telling the judge now. The affidavit above is from November; it's what got the FBI he original stay. The document explaing the reasons for requesting an extension of the stay is classified and has been sealed.
You and me both. But after reading this affidavit and some of the quotes attributed to Lambert, I'm even more convinced now than I was before that the official tack they're taking is "We still believe Hatfill is the guy, but we just don't have enough hard evidence in order to justify a prosecution. Just give us a little more time and we think we can get what we need to prove he did it."
I really can't blame them for taking this tack, and it's pretty much what I expected. It's a great way for the government to both have its cake and eat it too. They don't have to admit screwing up (we're the government, we don't make mistakes), and it seems as though they can play the game almost indefinitely as long as they have pliant judges who tend to give the government the benfit of the doubt. It also keeps them from having to pay some hefty cash to Hatfill, Maureen Stevens, and whoever else might decide to sue down the line.
"I really can't blame them for taking this tack,"
They have to, otherwise why would the judge not let the pase go on? Hatfill's lawyers said they weren't interested in other people being investigated, and would agree to some limits.
They're covering up. By October they can claim a year's worth of work after the Matsumoto science article shook the trees.
I don't think the affidavit alone. There was another sealed delivery to the Judge in January I recall, then he issued the stay. As I recall the Judge's comments, he wasn't exactly thrilled.
I can bet what the FBI said - all sorts of super-duper secret stuff is going on, just as vague as the affidavit, maybe less so, signed by a bigwig that impressed the judge. And since the judge doesn't get to keep the document, the writer can say pretty much as he pleases without risk of contradiction later.
Agreed. What gets me though is that they're dealing with not just one trial, but two trials and two different judges. Assuming that this whole entire thing is really what it seems and on the up-and-up, wouldn't you think that even a couple of pliant judges would eventually start to catch on after a little while? You can only stretch out a fish tale so far, even to a dummy. And if the government is lying in their secret classified reports they're only risking bringing even further trouble on themselves down the line.
"And if the government is lying in their secret classified reports they're only risking bringing even further trouble on themselves down the line."
That really is the big question. Are the government lying? Dwight Adams already told senate staffers there were no additives. If this is a lie it's an outrageous lie. It's so outrageous that the FBI can never allow the truth to get out.
I'd like to know if the FBI have confiscated all the original analysis reports performed at AFIP and DIA labs, you know just in case someone in the future decides to leak them to the press.
Liberality, ie detail, might harm their argument for a delay.
The FBI knows a lot that they aren't saying.
Yep. This is a case against them. Primary motive: get out of it - money awards and embarassment and careers at stake. From what I understand, they don't have to prove Hatfill did it, but that their acts toward him were reasonable.
Look at their case - what are they going to say, "Yes, we didn't think much of Hatfill case until those Senate staffers yelled at us because of what Rosenberg told them." Or, "Since Nicholas Kristof revealed Hatfill's name in the New York Times we decided to chase Hatfill". Or, "Yes, we spent two years trying to think up ways a guy like Hatfill would have refined a "pure" anthrax that could have acted like the Senate weaponized anthrax, but wasn't created like the Senate anthrax". They're stuck (and victims too, IMO.)
If they really thought it was Hatfill they wouldn't spend so much time insinuating that Hatfill's lawyers would harm other investigations by revealing info they got.
I disagree. The judge only gets to quickly read the reports. The "lying" is almost risk-less.
Though I suspect there's no lying, just ominous innuendo colored with stories of investigative derring-do.
You may be right and I'm by no means a legal expert. I would imagine though that if the government is secretly giving the judge the outright impression that Hatfill is the #1 suspect in the crime and in reality they no longer really believe this, that this would have to be considered Obstruction of Justice (or something along those lines).
Southack, maybe I'm being terribly naive about this, but I honestly think the FBI does not know where the anthrax came from. I think they put blinders on themselves almost immediately by so hastily profiling the perp as some crazed lone, white male and disconnecting the anthrax mailings from the 9/11 attacks. The trail is now very cold and getting colder.
The posted article closes with a statement that suggests they don't believe this case will be solved. The gist is: "Well, we may not solve this case, but we're learning a lot and inventing a new forensic field."
Judge doubts Hatfill suit will harm anthrax probe Scientist's claim that leaks wrecked his career elicits understanding at hearing
By Scott Shane
WASHINGTON - A federal judge said yesterday that he is not convinced that allowing a lawsuit by Dr. Steven J. Hatfill to proceed will endanger the FBI's investigation of the anthrax letters that killed five people in 2001.
During a motions hearing, U.S. District Judge Reggie B. Walton expressed sympathy for Hatfill's claim that government leaks have wrecked his career, the basis for the suit he filed in August against Attorney General John Ashcroft, the Justice Department, the FBI and other law enforcement officials.
"I totally understand how his life has been, at least at this point, virtually destroyed," Walton said. "I know I'm not inclined to give an open-ended stay," which would freeze the lawsuit indefinitely.
Walton said the government's voluminous court filings have not persuaded him to postpone the suit until the anthrax case is solved, as Justice Department lawyers are seeking.
"Is Mr. Hatfill still a suspect?" Walton asked. "Are there any suspects? At some point, it seems to me, if Mr. Hatfill did not commit this crime, he should get his life back."
In response, Assistant U.S. Attorney Mark E. Nagle told the judge that later yesterday the Justice Department would deliver to him an affidavit containing secret additional information on the progress of the anthrax case to justify the delay.
Nagle called Hatfill "an individual who by his own declaration is implicated in the investigation" but gave no indication of whether investigators still are interested in the former Army biowarfare expert. ...
___________________________
"an individual who by his own declaration is implicated in the investigation"
I guess that's the govt's line to win the case.
Complete and total FBI incompetence is a potential rational explanation, but to me, not the *most* rational available explanation.
The CIA has been quietly building a case that the anthrax attacks of 2001 were in fact the result of an international terrorist plot.
U.S. officials with access to intelligence reports tell us the information showing a terrorist link to the anthrax-filled letters sent by mail in the weeks after the September 11 terrorist attacks is not conclusive. But it is persuasive.
Asked to comment, a U.S. official said, "There is no evidence at this point to suggest a foreign terrorist link or connection. But the matter is still under investigation and we're not ruling anything out."
Some officials think the intelligence is at least as valid as the FBI's "mad scientist" theory, which has produced dead ends so far for the G-men after more than two years of investigation. This theory says a U.S. biological weapons scientist with access to highly refined anthrax powder stole some and used it to awaken the U.S. government to the threat of deadly anthrax.
Former weapons scientist Stephen Hatfill was identified by the Justice Department as a "person of interest" in the probe. Mr. Hatfill has stated repeatedly that he had nothing to do with the anthrax mailings. He is suing the federal government for investigating him. ...
Me neither. But I try to fathom what's happening here from generalizations how humans act. I think CYA is an instinct traceable to earliest man. :)
If my (all-new-and-greatly-improved ?)hypothesis is right,
Plum Island might(somewhat truthfully) say: "We have never kept anthrax here."
This leaves out: "But the US Army did."
It also leaves out: "But we stored some kind of "hot" stuff
for the UN."
A Dr.David L. Huxsoll-formerly Col. Huxsoll,CO of Ft.Detrick,and formerly involved with UNSCOM-became the director of Plum Island in June,2000.(He has since moved on.)Huxsoll was on 3 missions to Iraq for UNSCOM,and it would seem entirely plausible(if plausibly deniable)that UNSCOM would "park" anything "hot" from Iraq on Plum Island.
So imagine our enterprising thief is a member of the UNSCOM
team.She may very well be a foreign national,who-once she's done the dirty deed-simply flies home,where she is out of reach of the FBI.
As a UN employee,she can even claim immunity-something her native country would have to waive,and might be very disinclined to do.No questions,no polygraphs,no nothing !
This might be what the FBI has whispered into the judge's shell-like ear .
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