Inquisition wasn't quite as bad as people think, says Pope (Except for GASP!! THE COMFY CHAIR!!)

Telegraph ^ | 6/16/04

[areafiftyone]

The Vatican sought to play down the terrors of the Inquisition yesterday, claiming that far fewer people were tortured and executed for heresy than was popularly believed.

The reassessment by Church historians was seized on by the Pope to qualify the apology he made for the Inquisition during the Church's millennium celebrations.

The research emerged from a conference of scholars convened in 1998 to help the Pope assess the impact of the Inquisition, which often used brutal methods to suppress alleged witchcraft and doctrinal unorthodoxy.

Church officials said that statistics and other data demolished myths about the Inquisition, including that torture and executions were commonly used.

"For the first time we studied the Inquisition in its entirety, from its beginnings to the 19th century," said Agostino Borromeo, a professor of history of Catholic and other Christian confessions at Rome's Sapienza University. Prof Borromeo said that while there were some 125,000 trials of suspected heretics in Spain, research found that about one per cent of the defendants were executed, far fewer than commonly believed. Many of the burnings at the stake were carried out by civil rather than religious tribunals.

Yesterday, the Pope reiterated his mea culpa but stressed that actions which had "disfigured the face of the Church" had to be viewed in their historical context.

[Solamente]

I am sorry that I was too noble to sue the Catholic Church for the damage their nuns, priests, and "brothers" back in the day put me through.

Through their hypocracy, my education was completed.

The current pope is an external sculpture of the very utter crap that has befallen Christianity.

I had to side with Voltaire and Thomas Jefferson and Thomas Paine. Don't bother in trying to change my mind about organized religion.

[GreenLanternCorps]

The Inquisition
Let's begin!
The Inquisition
Look out sin!
We're on a mission to convert the Jews...


Jew ja Jew ja Jew ja Jew...

[Clara Lou]

Some pope, not this one, madel the Inquisition a policy of the Church-- justified it, OK'd it, permitted it, let it continue. An agent of this pope is now minimizing the horrors that took place. Once issued, the apology should have been the end of the Church's discussion of the issue. "We're sorry, but it actually wasn't that bad" doesn't look very good.

[Campion]

When I was in the military I knew a catholic priest, a dominican, who told me all about the inquisition and how bad it actually was.

Yeah, and you trust this guy -- who had lost his faith but lacked the integrity to leave the priesthood and the Church, after all he needed the money -- so much that you think every word that fell from his lips ought to be treated like gospel. You reject Papal infallibility but accept the infallibility of a CINO Dominican priest you met in the army.

[k2blader]

Prof Borromeo said that while there were some 125,000 trials of suspected heretics in Spain, research found that about one per cent of the defendants were executed, far fewer than commonly believed.

Not that I'd really believe it either, but what are his stats on torture?

And how exactly are they "researching" these "facts"?

[Campion]

Some pope, not this one, madel the Inquisition a policy of the Church-- justified it, OK'd it, permitted it, let it continue.

None of which are likely to be acts protected by the charism of infallibility. Papal infallibility means only that the Pope can't teach heresy and bind Catholics to believe it, not that he can't commit sins and do stupid things.

[Clara Lou]

I think you're majorly confused.
Always resort to casting aspersions when someone says something that you don't agree with.

[pgyanke]

I'm not cross. I'm pointing out to the other posters here that although you claim an impeccable Catholic background as your platform from which to discredit Church teaching, what you seek to discredit isn't part of the doctrine and tradition of the Church.

I saw that you wrote "matters of the chuch" and guess what? The Pope doesn't speak infallibly on every matter of the Church either. The only time Papal Infallibility is invoked is when he speak ex cathedra... from his chair as pastor and doctor of all Christians without consent of the Church. Over the past 2000 years, this has occurred rarely.

Bringing it up in this context amounts to nothing more than an ignorant Catholic bash. Using your family background was simply an attempt to give your words credence.

[MEGoody]

"Don't bother in trying to change my mind about organized religion."

You prefer disorganized religion?

Just kidding!

[scouse]

the impact of the Inquisition, which often used brutal methods to suppress alleged witchcraft

This is not true. The Catholic church may have held witchcraft in disdain, but for the most part they ignored it completely. They had enough trouble with heresy.

[Onelifetogive]

Compared for what happened in the totalitarian states of the 20th Century, the Spanish Inquisition was a picnic.

People get mad at me when I compare the Catholic Church to the totalitarian states of the 20th Cantury......

[Clara Lou]

I'm pointing out to the other posters here that although you claim an impeccable Catholic background as your platform from which to discredit Church teaching, what you seek to discredit isn't part of the doctrine and tradition of the Church.
I didn't claim "an impeccable Catholic background." I just stated what my background is. I didn't seek to discredit. I made a simple statement of my personal position-- to which I am entitled. I didn't bash, call names, or anything else. I just stated my personal position.

[pgyanke]

You seem a little upset. I get the impression it's because you think we're misunderstanding your posts and perhaps poorly stating your position.

We're responding to you because you are doing the same thing with the Church. Good day.

[gedeon3]

THIS IS A LIE FROM THE PIT OF HELL. ONE THING THEY FAIL TO MENTION IS THE THOUSANDS WHO LOST THEIR PROPERTY, AND WERE EXILED.

[babyface00]

Some pope, not this one, madel the Inquisition a policy of the Church-- justified it, OK'd it, permitted it, let it continue. An agent of this pope is now minimizing the horrors that took place. Once issued, the apology should have been the end of the Church's discussion of the issue. "We're sorry, but it actually wasn't that bad" doesn't look very good.

Interesting, but irrelevant to the doctrine of Infallibility. The pope is only infallible when he speaks Ex Cathedra on matters of faith. What he, or his predecessors, said as head of the church, when not speaking Ex Cathedra, are no more or less infallible than what any other leader, or for that matter, any other human being says. The pope is just as vulnerable to sin and temptation as any other person. The Pope could open up a strip club in the basement of the Vatican, and that would have zero relevance on the question of his infallibility on matters of faith when he speaks Ex Cathedra.

One would hope that, having the substantial resources of the Church and her history, the Pope's pronouncements would be wiser and his decisions better than anyone else in the world, but there's no guarantee, and certainly there are plenty of examples of popes in the past who made mistakes.

I'm certainly no church historian, but I'm not aware of any Ex Cathedra pronouncements regarding the Inquisition by the current Pope or any of his predecessors.

[nmh]

Yeah, let's minimize evil. Let's not talk about homosexual priests molesting kids and moving the priests to other parishes so they can molest other kids. Oh, in the meantime pay off the parents of the molested kids. Let's not DARE talk about lesbian nuns either. No, let's minimize and if possible completely ignore this and the Inquisition. Let's have this church leader bash the U.S. for "Iraqi prisoner abuse" but totally ignore the the beheadings and hideous murders done by Muslims. Yeah, this organization really has alot of creditability. LOL!

[Solamente]

What I would love to see is individual communion. 5 or 6 billion personal religions. I'm not talking about foolishness, inventing a deity that meets one's shortcomings, but an honest willingness to cooperate with one's own God-given Conscience.

When you have a religious experience, it is insanity to try to explain it to anyone else.

[nmh]

The Bible verifies what you say.

NO ONE is infallible, spiritually or otherwise. The only one is Christ that fits that description. It showed in His words and deeds.

[Antoninus]

As a person of Catholic background (aunt a nun, uncle a priest, family recipient of papal blassing; 6 years of Catholic school education) I cannot accept the infallibility of the Pope in matters of the Church or anything else. I simply cannot, and the Inquisition is one reason, along with multiple others.

Actually, the 6 years of Catholic school education explains precisely why you don't accept Papal infallibility in matters of faith and morals. Catholic education in this country is anything but. It is a complete and utter failure.

If you had bothered to learn the real history, you'd quickly discover that the "evil" Inquisition was actually far less prone to condemn and execute than ANY of the other European courts of the time.

Context is everything. If you take the Inquisition out of context, it is impossible to judge it fairly.

[pctech]

Oh man, it's you again. We seem to have such spirited "discussions" when it comes to the catholic faith don't we???

You reject Papal infallibility but accept the infallibility of a CINO Dominican priest you met in the army

My response??? ABSOLUTELY!!!

Why wouldn't I? This man was faithful to God Almighty and his parishoners.

No man on the face of this earth is infallible; you, me, every freeper here, Jim Robinson and yes even the Pope. But of course a staunch catholic like yourself is entitled to your opinion. You believe the way you want, that's your right. I believe the catholic faith is so full of holes that it sinks faster than the Titanic. But that's my opinion.

Now unless you can come on here and discuss things in a rational fashion then I suggest you go somewhere else. I won't be party to another long drawn out "mud slinging contest" that you like to engage in.