Hey John:
Posted on 06/04/2004 4:48:14 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach
ROME (AP) -
President Bush got a sharp dose of Europe's opposition to his Iraq policy Friday, quietly in the halls of the Vatican from Pope John Paul II and loudly in the streets of Rome from thousands of demonstrators.
The ailing pontiff complained about recent "deplorable events," an apparent reference to the abuse of Iraqi prisoners by U.S. troops. In the absence of a commitment to shared human values, "neither war nor terrorism will ever be overcome," he said, struggling to speak.
However, the pope welcomed the recent establishment of an interim government and called for a speedy transfer of sovereignty to the Iraqis.
Not far from the Vatican walls, tens of thousands of protesters took to the streets to demonstrate through central Rome, many with signs demanding Italy withdraw its troops from Iraq. A score of demonstrators hurling stones clashed with police during the march. Others threw firecrackers and set a trash can on fire.
Bush had dinner with a top ally on Iraq, Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi. On Saturday, the president heads to Paris to meet with one of his sharpest war critics, French President Jacques Chirac.
Despite Berlusconi's backing, and his decision to send 3,000 Italian troops to Iraq, polls show that a majority of Italians oppose the U.S.-led war and occupation of Iraq, a sentiment common throughout western Europe.
Bush is on a three-day trip to Italy and France to help commemorate the June 1944 liberation of Rome and the allied D-Day invasion of Normandy. He was also using the trip - and an international economic summit next week in Sea Island, Ga. - to try to build more support among leading nations for a new U.N. resolution to deal with post-occupation Iraq.
But the announcement in Baghdad that five U.S. soldiers were killed and five wounded on Friday when their vehicles were attacked in east Baghdad served as a reminder that Iraq remained an extremely dangerous place.
Seated next to the pope, Bush promised his nation would work for "human liberty and human dignity," without making any reference to Iraq. He presented the pontiff with the presidential medal of freedom, America's highest civilian award, calling him "a devoted servant of God."
The president and his wife Laura laid a green wreath at the Ardeatine Cave Memorial, where Nazi occupiers massacred 335 Italian citizens in 1944. Bush, alone, approached the wreath, straightened its blue ribbon and bowed his head as a bugler played.
At the Vatican, Bush sat impassively as the 84-year-old pope, seated in front of a microphone, read his statement in English in a voice that was audible, but not easily understood. His hands trembled from Parkinson's disease.
"Mr. President, your visit to Rome takes place at a moment of great concern for the continuing situation of grave unrest in the Middle East, both in Iraq and in the Holy Land," the pope said.
"In the past few weeks, other deplorable events have come to light which have troubled the civic and religious conscience of all."
Although the remarks appeared directed at abuses of Iraqi prisoners by U.S. troops at Baghdad's Abu Ghraib prison, they could also be taken to include other atrocities such as the kidnapping of foreign civilians in Iraq by Islamic militants and the beheading of an American contractor.
The pope did not elaborate. Neither would papal spokesman Joaquin Navarro-Valls, although he did not dispute characterizations that the comments referred primarily to abuse at Abu Ghraib prison.
The spokesman said that while the pope had reiterated the Vatican's long-standing opposition to the war, he made plain he was ready to move forward.
Later, Navarro-Valls issued a brief statement summing up Bush's visit to the Vatican. "There were some points of agreement, especially regarding the process of normalization of Iraq," he said.
Navarro-Valls also spoke about the U.S. humanitarian role around the world, particularly in Africa, and, as the pope himself had stated, the promotion of moral values in American society.
White House spokesman Scott McClellan said, "We appreciate the Holy Father's words of support for the interim government and for the transfer of sovereignty."
Regarding the pope's apparent reference to Abu Ghraib, McClellan said, "I'm sure the Holy Father is concerned about the abuses. The president is as well. That's why we are acting, taking a systemic look at the prison system and holding those responsible who committed those atrocities."
Friday's was Bush's third meeting with the pope since he became president.
Bush has aggressively courted Roman Catholic voters - a bloc making up about a quarter of the electorate that split evenly between Bush and Democrat Al Gore in 2000.
Thanking Bush for the medal of freedom award, the pontiff said: "God bless America."
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Yeah, he should talk. Thanks for nothing. So, we've got a seriously mentally disabled octogenarian Pope, surrounded by liberal, commie agents feeding him "All the news that's fit to print".
What do you expect?
I have very little doubt that you have a direct connection with God himself and that you know exactly what his will is. Let's keep it friendly, shall we?
Mr. President, I offer a warm welcome to you and to Mrs. Bush, and to the distinguished delegation accompanying you. I also extend a cordial and affectionate greeting to all the people of the United States whom you represent. I thank you for wishing to meet with me again, in spite of the difficulties presented by your own many commitments during this present visit to Europe and Italy, and by my own departure tomorrow morning for a meeting with young people in Switzerland.
You are visiting Italy to commemorate the sixtieth anniversary of the liberation of Rome and to honor the memory of the many American soldiers who gave their lives for their country and for the freedom of the peoples of Europe. I join you in recalling the sacrifice of those valiant dead and in asking the Lord that the mistakes of the past, which gave rise to appalling tragedies, may never again be repeated. Today I too think back with great emotion on the many Polish soldiers who died for the freedom of Europe.
Our thoughts also turn today to the twenty years in which the Holy See and the United States have enjoyed formal diplomatic relations, established in 1984 under President Reagan. These relations have promoted mutual understanding on great issues of common interest and practical cooperation in different areas. I send my regards to President Reagan and to Mrs. Reagan, who is so attentive to him in his illness. I would also like to express my esteem for all the representatives of the United States to the Holy See, together with my appreciation for the competence, sensitivity and great commitment with which they have favored the development of our relations.
Mr. President, your visit to Rome takes place at a moment of great concern for the continuing situation of grave unrest in the Middle East, both in Iraq and in the Holy Land. You are very familiar with the unequivocal position of the Holy See in this regard, expressed in numerous documents, through direct and indirect contacts, and in the many diplomatic efforts which have been made since you visited me, first at Castelgandolfo on 23 July 2001, and again in this Apostolic Palace on 28 May 2002.
It is the evident desire of everyone that this situation now be normalized as quickly as possible with the active participation of the international community and, in particular, the United Nations organization, in order to ensure a speedy return of Iraq's sovereignty, in conditions of security for all its people. The recent appointment of a head of state in Iraq and the formation of an interim Iraqi government are an encouraging step towards the attainment of this goal. May a similar hope for peace also be rekindled in the Holy Land and lead to new negotiations, dictated by a sincere and determined commitment to dialogue, between the government of Israel and the Palestinian Authority.
The threat of international terrorism remains a source of constant concern. It has seriously affected normal and peaceful relations between states and peoples since the tragic date of 11 September 2001, which I have not hesitated to call "a dark day in the history of humanity." In the past few weeks other deplorable events have come to light which have troubled the civic and religious conscience of all, and made more difficult a serene and resolute commitment to shared human values: in the absence of such a commitment neither war nor terrorism will ever be overcome. May God grant strength and success to all those who do not cease to hope and work for understanding between peoples, in respect for the security and rights of all nations and of every man and woman.
At the same time, Mr. President, I take this opportunity to acknowledge the great commitment of your government and of your nation's numerous humanitarian agencies, particularly those of Catholic inspiration, to overcoming the increasingly intolerable conditions in various African countries, where the suffering caused by fratricidal conflicts, pandemic illnesses and a degrading poverty can no longer be overlooked.
I also continue to follow with great appreciation your commitment to the promotion of moral values in American society, particularly with regard to respect for life and the family.
A fuller and deeper understanding between the United States of America and Europe will surely play a decisive role in resolving the great problems which I have mentioned, as well as so many others confronted by humanity today. May your visit, Mr. President, give new and powerful impetus to such cooperation.
Mr. President, as you carry out your lofty mission of service to your nation and to world peace, I assure you of my prayers and cordially invoke upon you God's blessings of wisdom, strength and peace.
May God bestow peace and freedom upon all mankind!
Cool name for it Rogue. Did you coin that phrase?
I suspect the Las Vegas Sun has a slant.
This is where I get irritated with the Pope, that he feels obliged to give the President a slap in the face instead of a thank you, and infer that Dubya, and the USA, do not share 'human values'.
However, that was the phrasing of the article's writer, twisting the Pontiff's words.
Still, I'm slightly bummed.
Dubya deserves a big hug and a public thank you from the Pope, not a nuanced condemnation.
The President doesn't condemn the Church for the actions of pederastic priests, nor Bishops who covered their tracks.
Likewise, the Church should not condemn the US for the ill-advised actions of a few prison guards.
Christ's injunction to turn the other cheek is righteous, and the Pontiff's obligtion to follow that teaching is noble, but the reality of it is that it could get us killed, and our neighbors and kin, too.
Text posted above.
Well, that's what Stalin said. Ultimately the Vatican won & communism lost.
They really spun this report....Text from the Pope posted above.
You could accurately and fairly say the Pope blessed Bush.
It is easy to anticipate the spin: It will always be negative, and outrageously so.
I do not know what one can do about it. What would you do? Should they hold up in the White house and do nothing? His first Iraq speech, the five point speech was deep sixed within 48 hours. The rousing AF Academy speech met a similar fate. What can one do here?
If the American people cannot see what is happening here then what are we to do about it? True the GOP could be faulted as a whole for not pressing the media's bias upon the people, but given the level of invective, disinformation and the intensity of the attack, would even that get through.
In the end the American people are faced with an adult choice. The blame for the wrong decision must squarely rest on those that make it.
I have agreed pretty much with many of your assessments over the last few months, but I ask you: What can really be done about it? Are you sure that the response you crave will bring results come Nov. or with they just make you feel better?
I am quickly getting to the point of view that either the American people must see through this now or we must go through even greater tragedy and suffering to finally rid ourselves of the moral failure and vice this is our national addiction to a corrupt and venial media - which is really only an aspect of a larger corruption of a broader political establishment - and all of the degrading intellectual, moral and spiritual conditions that come with it. This "narcosis of the media" and its suppression of the sound discourse in the body political has been building for a very long time, building since FDR, in fact, and if the American people do not have the maturity to understand it then I am afraid there is little to be done about it. Truth will out.
In the end, we where wrong to concede the realm of media and "culture" to the Left, and this failure goes back to the 1930's. The "greatest Generation" indeed.
The fact that Liberal elites cannot side with the nation in a time of war shows not only corruption but deeply flawed thought. Things must run their course it would seem.
We must remember that this has been the case for most of our challenges in the post war period. Look at Korea and Vietnam. The Cold War victory was a close one. If Reagan had not come to power the USSR would most likely be with us.
We are at a point of cultural crisis as a nation. The old culture will fail. The question is whether or not we have the maturity to recognizes this and fashion as fresh one to face the new adversity or shall our failure to adjust bring us to our end as a power, as a nation?
I do not have the answer to that one. Do you?
And with that, the Pope turned to papal spokesman Joaquin Navarro-Valls, smirked, rolled his eyes, and then yawned...
Doom, doom, doom.
God, you are such a DOWNER!
They can have a communications strategy, but they don't. everyone must be on the same page, they need to get a consistent message and everyone needs to stick with it. You can't have Ashcroft announcing a terror alert and then Ridge comming out to backpedal on it. They need to assemble a list of Republicans to take the message to every talk show they can get on, and say the same thing. You can't have Lindsey Graham going out there like a puppy with Hillary holding his leash. They need a political war room - a bunch of people who sit in a room all day watching every TV station and radio - reacting to the news cycle movements right away. They must get rid of Scott McClellan, he sucks. They need to cultivate and expand the alternative media - Bush should be doing talk radio interviews twice a week, so should many other in the Administration.
Fire Karl Rove - hire Ed Rollins back, he knows what to do.
see my post #55. Tell us what you disagree with, which of my ideas are bad.
Bush should be ahead 15-20% right now; as it stands now, his re-election is 50/50.
I am not trying to be a downer. I am trying to install fear. Yes, fear. The fear that the words "President elect Kerry" may be what we hear in 150 days. Fear is a great motivator.
I'm sure the Vatican is planning on lecturing the mooselimbs for their part in troubling "the civic and religious conscience of all."
This is the funniest of all:
"Thanking Bush for the medal of freedom award, the pontiff said: "God bless America."
This man the pope has done absolutely NOTHING to promote peace. What he promoted through his silence was appeasement of evil. I noticed that when he received that undeserved award, then he muttered - God Bless America".
Geesh, Bush, Catholics will still vote for Demoncrats no matter what YOU do since the pope OPPOSES you and what you have done in office. All the unearned awards in the world will NOT change that or change how Catholics vote. The majority do not have an issue with abortion, same sex marriage nor do they want to stop more socialism.
Hey John:
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