4 U.S. troops killed, 5 injured in Baghdad (Sadr)

MSNBC ^ | MSNBC News Services

[milemark]

"Mighty Hammer" were not my words, but the words of the poster I replied to. I expect no hammer of any strength to be swung. We don't want to offend the terrorists after all. We'll keep on sending our soldiers on patrol in satan city in tin cans instead of tanks or APCs because we don't want to seem unfriendly.

[Cindy]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,121752,00.html

FOX NEWS.com (AP): "Five U.S. Soldiers Die in Ambush Near Baghdad"

Friday, June 04, 2004


ARTICLE SNIPPET: "BAGHDAD, Iraq  — Five U.S. soldiers were killed and five wounded on Friday when their vehicles were attacked in east Baghdad, the U.S. military said.






The 10 soldiers were members of Task Force Baghdad (search), which is made up primarily of the Texas-based 1st Cavalry Division (search), said division spokesman Army Lt. Col. James Hutton.


The vehicles came under attack shortly after 1 p.m. on Palestine Street near the Shiite district of Sadr City (search). Video from Associated Press Television News showed the burning wreckage of a Humvee (search) and a huge plume of black smoke rising from the mangled vehicle."

[Gucho]

"The vehicles came under attack shortly after 1 p.m. on Palestine Street near the Shiite district of Sadr City (search). Video from Associated Press Television News showed the burning wreckage of a Humvee (search) and a huge plume of black smoke rising from the mangled vehicle."

Damn it! There has to be a way to improve on the safety of our troops getting killed by these devices! (IED'S)

[Gucho]

The U.S. Army at one time was much smarter and better equipped for non-linear combats when it was a M113 Gavin AFV Army til the early 1980s with the advent of the HMMWV and the too-heavy for general use M1/M2 family of heavy AFVs. Now we have light units in HMMWVs getting clobbered in combat without ANY armored vehicles and heavy AFV units that cannot roam around as needed without wearing their tracks out. In stark contrast, the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) right now at the bare minimum moves its troops around non-linear battlefields in light tracked M113 Gavins with armor protection against small arms and with appliqué armor RPGs. The IDF is not losing a man a day like we are in Iraq.

Its high time the U.S. Army relearn that a light tracked AFV should be the primary troop carrier for ALL its units in combat situations not the horrible HMMWV. A light tracked M113 Gavin AFV (under 11 tons) with current steel tracks can go anywhere, swim, be airlifted to include helicopters, and with a light 8.63 PSI ground pressure get 10,000 miles on its tracks which will not bust daily as rubber tires do. The maneuverists who lust for the rubber-tired LAV/Stryker armored cars need to go back through their notes to their favorite 1940 fall of France battle and realize that "operational mobility" they are so quick to praise as necessary to knock out enemy centers of gravity was done by TRACKED light tanks that could go cross country through the "impassable" Ardennes forest not road-bound, fragile armored cars. Study the ACRs in Vietnam, their combat experiences with M113 Gavin operational mobility saved the day during the Tet offensive and saved Saigon.

The quickest way to get M113 Gavins in Army light infantry units is to re-equip their Delta Companies with 30+ light tracked AFVs so they can now give A, B and Charlie companies armored mobility as needed. When not used for troop transports the M113 Gavin's armored mobility renders better firing positions for Delta companies during anti-tank missions.

If we have folks who cannot accept the M113 Gavin because its not new, they need to go take a look at the B-52. Planet earth doesn't care about fashion, all that matters is what works. The unarmored HMMWV truck and rubber-tired armored car do not work in combat against violent humans. The light tracked AFV, the M113 Gavin does and it needs to become the prime troop carrier in the U.S. Army via modest upgrades other smarter armies have done to keep its men alive and get the job done in a violent world.

[RaceBannon]

Notice the Photog's name? on all of them?

They are in cahoots with the terrorists!

[RaceBannon]

These Photogs seem to be everywhere, eh?

And I mean everywhere!

Just look at the pictures these guys took, tell me whose side they are on??


http://images.google.com/images?q=Karim+Kadim&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&filter=0

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Essam+al%2DSudani

http://www.haarlemsdagblad.nl/Index/0,4376,,00.html?sHoofdUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.haarlemsdagblad.nl%2FPagina%2F0%2C7100%2C10-1-2032--2011100-1488--%2C00.html

http://images.google.com/images?q=Ceerwan%20Aziz&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi

http://images.google.com/images?q=Ahmad%20al-Rubaye&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi

http://images.google.com/images?q=Hussein%20Malla&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi

[Tailback]

One of the killed and one critically wounded guy were in my old Army Guard unit. They were friends of mine. I'm just numb, I've been talking about humvees being useless for combat duty for years and now this.

[F14 Pilot]

DEATH TO ALL TERRORISTS!

[Reagan is King]

I'm sorry to hear about the loss of your friends. The sad thing is they would probably be alive if they'd been in the M113A and from what I understand the Army has hundreds of them in mothballs. Why aren't they mandatory equipment in the danger zones?

Here's a quote from the website I linked to in my post:

Gary Motsek, the deputy director of support operations for US army materiel command, said: "I have roughly 700 113-series vehicles sitting pre-positioned in Kuwait, though some are in need of repairs. I have them available right now, if they want them."

They need to get them to the frontline troops NOW!

[sarasota]

I'm beginning to think (slow to the party?) that these guys all have their cliques and agendas. Yet I still hope they will arrive at some type of understanding. Chalabi, however, has a very big "scab" to pick.

[defenderSD]

There's no question we need to keep our troops in Iraq to prevent a power grab by insurgents or a civil war. But we really should stop patrolling the streets in lightly armored vechicles. Unless our men are going out to attack some insurgents in humvees, they shouldn't be driving around in such lightly armored vehicles. Instead, just pay some Iraqis to tell us what's happening on the streets and install a bunch of surveillance cameras to watch the bad neighborhoods. Our men are driving around out there in humvees with targets on their backs. It just ain't right.

Although we're shipping armored humvees to Iraq as fast as possible, that isn't going to solve the problem because the insurgents are smart enough to just attack the unarmored humvees. Until every unarmored vechicle is replaced in Iraq, they're just going to attack to choose the vulnerable vehicles and troops for attack. We should not be out there just patrolling like the NYPD in sqad cars. It's too dangerous and it's not that critical of a mission. Instead, gather intelligence with more clandestine operations and keep our uniformed soldiers ready to respond to major insurgent attacks. This patrolling is not necessary and it's getting our men killed for no good reason. There has to be a better way to improve security in Iraq.

[Patriot_from_CA]

"Instead, gather intelligence with more clandestine operations and keep our uniformed soldiers ready to respond to major insurgent attacks. This patrolling is not necessary and it's getting our men killed for no good reason."

Amen to that. We should stop patrolling these dangerous ares in unarmored humvees and stop it immediately. There has to be ways to use technology, surveillance cams, and the local Iraqis just to find out what's happening in these areas. Baghdad isn't New York, so our men can't operate like the NYPD. Our men are prepared to take risks, but they shouldn't be in a situation where they're almost like ducks in a shooting gallery.

[Joe Hadenuf]

We've been hearing that for over a year now. You need some new material.

Gets old, doesn't it?