Posted on 05/30/2004 8:54:37 PM PDT by Badray
Party over Principle?
That is the $64,000.00 question.
This past Friday morning, Arlen Specter was at a town hall meeting in Ross Township (suburb north of Pittsburgh PA). According to Specter staffer Justin Lokay, this was at the suggestion of Lou Nudi, the Ross Committee Chairman.
There were about 35 people in attendance including the Senator and 5 or 6 staffers and interns. Also there was Congresswoman Melissa Hart, State Senator John Pippy, former Hart staffer and 16th state house district candidate Pat Geho, former row office candidate Becky Toomey (oh, the irony, but she is still the prettiest, and my favorite Specter supporter), Lou Nudi, as well as some various other local committee people. Arriving late as usual was State Representative Jeff Habay. More on him later.
I arrived shortly before the meeting started and checked to see if I was on the PNG (persona non grata) list, but was welcomed in, much to my surprise because I have been barred from previous events. I sat and listened to how conservative values were important to Arlen, how much he enjoys being around G.W.Bush, and how we must defeat the Democrats.
This is a pretty stock speech when he tries to court Republicans. Sadly too many pubbies have short memories and actually believe Arlen when he speaks. He invoked the name of his recent challenger, Pat Toomey and says that he enjoys his support because the Dem candidate is so bad. Yada, yada, yada . . .
He then tried to ingratiate himself by mentioning the names of several people in the crowd. There names were conveniently written on the cue card in his hand. The whole thing was a sad charade, but that didn't stop many from sucking it up. I don't know if they were all die hard supporters or simply supporting the "R" against the horrible "D" that looms ahead if we don't support Arlen.
He then 'yielded' to Melissa Hart. She yucked it up with him for a moment (Think Sonny and Cher, except that Sonny was the conservative, not Cher.) before he stepped aside. About now, there should have been a commercial break, but they continued anyway. Melissa then spoke in glowing terms of Arlen and how important it was to put Arlen into office so that he could chair the Judiciary Committee and help get Bush's judicial nominees approved. She cited the brave defense of former PA Attorney General Mike Fisher when some Democrats posed some minor opposition to Mike's approval. Thank God, Arlen was there to save the day and he convinced the Dems not to block him. BTW, Fisher was supported in his quest for the bench by his recent opponent for the Governor's office - Democrat Governor Ed Rendell. Gee, that must have been a tough fight, Arlen.
What no Borking of Fisher? Don't worry, if Mike starts to make some sound judgements, you can bet that Arlen will apologize like he did after fighting for Clarence Thomas.
Melissa was about 3 minutes into her praise when I just couldn't take it any longer. There she was defending the man that has been pissing on us for years and she was calling it rain. I walked out. On the way out, I said to her brother that I just couldn't stand the BS.
I stayed outside for the remainder of the meeting. I missed the Q and A session, but was told that there was only one tough question asked and that Arlen spent about ten minutes addressing it. The question may have hit a nerve, but I doubt that he will do anything more than pay lip service to it.
Some good news. There was some who expressed continued opposition to him despite coming to be convinced that they should now be supporting him.
I did tell Melissa's aide that I was not alone in my displeasure with her support of Arlen. She may or may not care, but I am sure that I am quite right in my assessment. She is putting the party before any principle she ever espoused and this will cost her later.
Another person that I engaged was Rep. Habay. He arrived only after I had left the meeting and was outside for about 15 minutes. He approached me as he entered the building and I greeted him with a snide remark that he resembled a man that I used to know and told him that I was disappointed in his support for Arlen. He told me that Arlen helped him early in his 'career' (God, I hate that word when applied to politicians.) and that he was repaying the favor. (Doesn't the mob do favors now for favors in the future too?) I told him that that is what happens when you get into bed with the wrong people. He started getting testy at that point (I have to keep the BAD in badray, ya know) and retorted that he wasn't in bed with anyone, but that he would be glad to sit down and discuss the issue with me. I said OK, but he needed to dig himself out of a big hole. Walking away, he said that he was very comfortable in his position. I thanked him for telling me what I needed to know as he turned the corner (more than metaphorically?).
Just before Arlen came out, I spoke to County GOP Chairman Rich Stampahar and he tried to convince me that Specter was the man to support. His pleas fell on deaf ears, but they were overheard by an intern of Specter's who wimpily came over to tell me that this was a private event and asked me not to create a disturbance. I replied only that I was talking to people that knew me and approached me and wasn't talking to any one else. Can you imagine anyone thinking that I would cause a disturbance? LOL Not me, I'm too shy.
On the way out, Arlen either didn't recognize me or thought that I went over to the dark side and was now a supporter. He approached me to shake my hand, but I politely declined. I reserve my handshake for those that I respect.
Maybe I'm just not a 'good republican'. Maybe I'm an 'unappeasable'. Maybe I am a purist. I've been called all of these things and more. And worse.
What I do know is that I cannot support this man. Not for party loyalty, not even for the Senate majority (we do not effectively have it now because of people like Specter). I also know that it is not out of bitterness or hatred. It's just principle. He doesn't believe the things that I believe. He doesn't value the things that I value. His vision of America is not my vision.
This November, a vote for Democrat Joe Hoeffel is a vote to put a true conservative, a true Republican in charge of the Senate Judiciary Committee. I'm voting for Joe.
Ray Horvath
Uh, it is the truth, IMO, you and your Guru, badray, should use the Hillary guffaw as you two promote Hillary's candidate(Joe Hoeffel) on FR.
So does Hillary over smokey's devotion to her flying monkey, Joe Hoeffel.
Badray,
See what I mean?
It wasn't Jefferson(Libertarian "hero" who decided to attack isalmic terrorists(Brabary Pirates) contrary to modern Liberatarian opinion), it was Washington.
Dane,
I'm afraid I have the sad duty to tell you that you have no idea to what I was referring. Being magnanimous, I'll help you out. I was referring to Jefferson's letter to the Governor of Virginia containing his musings on the evils likely to be wrought on the republic by the toadies who populate political parties. You should read it sometime. I think you'll be amazed at how familiar it sounds.
For this being such a flawed plan with limited appeal, it sure has your panties in a twist.
If what you say is true, why are expending so much energy fighting it?
If what I'm proposing is so ludicrous why does it garner support when I mention it to proven conservatives?
The only ones here getting upset are the self described "R"s whose credentials have not been proven on this board.
I am impressed by your vocabulary and your debating strategy. Just keep it coming !
Could anyone out there define feeb for me ? I can't seem to find it in the dictionary.
No doubt, many people see what you mean as you join the badray/ hillary bandwagon of electing joe hoeffel on FR.
While dissing Toomey, Santorum, and the President at the same time.
If so they were wrong about THAT.
However, they are not wrong about either the strategy or the reason to vote against Specter.
Why did you cut off this part when you quoted me? Do these numbers make you uncomfortable?
Specter's lifetime ACU rating is 43.
Hoeffel's lifetime ACU rating is 8.
Hillary's lifetime ACU rating is 11.
Bernie Sanders, admitted Socialist, ACU rating is 7.
How about another one.... Kucinich is 15...... A Senator is a great deal more than just one of their committee assignments. You are insisting we add a hard-leftist to the Senate for at least 6 years, probably much longer. We have a slim majority right now, yes, but there is no promise that we will keep that for any length of time and our deliberately handing this seat to the left is absurd.
Thanks for your kind and rational words of support. Although you are not directly involved in our PA fight, you understand because you've seen the same thing happen in your backyard. I only wish these detractors would look at the motivation and challenge that if they find it faulty. So far no one has except to make false and unproven assertions.
No wonder the GOP has drifted leftward. They are so used to supporting lefties, they no longer consider them lefties.
Welcome to FR. Just be sure to have an asbestos suit handy.
Because you have asked it numerous times. And the answer is: Does the fact that pro-choice Specter will head the committee that will appoint pro-choice judges ? Who will do the less damage ?
Thanks Steve. I appreciate your support and understanding. Sadly, some of these people value the principles that they claim to have as much as many people value used kleenex and will desert them or sell them out for less.
Steve, the only reason he "corrected you" was because someone educated him earlier in the thread with Washington's speech.
Whew if you don't find your own logic of electing Hillary flying monkey, joe hoeffel, faulty, then you are a lost cause, IMO.
Interesting also that on this thread that you badray, have not denied that hoeffel is a Hillary flying monkey.
Ask the moderator to remove your reply at #456 or I will. There is no need to express yourself like this. You are disgusting and beneath contempt.
Sure, a look at the American Conservative Union ratings for Iowa show that Latham has a lifetime ACU rating of 88 and Boswell has a rating of 31.
So, Latham has a "worse voting record on the issues" than Boswell, in your esteemed "True Principled Conservative" judgement?
Come One! Come All! See Badray and his "stop Specter" Mensa Society crew yakking politics from head injury clinics across this fruited plain!
Knock yourself out there Hillary flyboy.
There is no need to express yourself like this. You are disgusting and beneath contempt
And you were probably silent on FR when Hillary played Billy Joel's song "Captain Jack" at one of her rallies.
Dane, I think you are wearing out the flying monkey debating tool. I think you should change to a new one.
You are incorrect. The most important thing is not electing a Republican senator from Pennsylvania, but rather to keep Arlen Spector from being chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee. If he gets that position he will do great harm to the Constitution, the Republic, and the Republican Party. He is evil.
Nah, it just making it's mark. The truth hurts to you, IMO.
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