Posted on 05/30/2004 8:54:37 PM PDT by Badray
Party over Principle?
That is the $64,000.00 question.
This past Friday morning, Arlen Specter was at a town hall meeting in Ross Township (suburb north of Pittsburgh PA). According to Specter staffer Justin Lokay, this was at the suggestion of Lou Nudi, the Ross Committee Chairman.
There were about 35 people in attendance including the Senator and 5 or 6 staffers and interns. Also there was Congresswoman Melissa Hart, State Senator John Pippy, former Hart staffer and 16th state house district candidate Pat Geho, former row office candidate Becky Toomey (oh, the irony, but she is still the prettiest, and my favorite Specter supporter), Lou Nudi, as well as some various other local committee people. Arriving late as usual was State Representative Jeff Habay. More on him later.
I arrived shortly before the meeting started and checked to see if I was on the PNG (persona non grata) list, but was welcomed in, much to my surprise because I have been barred from previous events. I sat and listened to how conservative values were important to Arlen, how much he enjoys being around G.W.Bush, and how we must defeat the Democrats.
This is a pretty stock speech when he tries to court Republicans. Sadly too many pubbies have short memories and actually believe Arlen when he speaks. He invoked the name of his recent challenger, Pat Toomey and says that he enjoys his support because the Dem candidate is so bad. Yada, yada, yada . . .
He then tried to ingratiate himself by mentioning the names of several people in the crowd. There names were conveniently written on the cue card in his hand. The whole thing was a sad charade, but that didn't stop many from sucking it up. I don't know if they were all die hard supporters or simply supporting the "R" against the horrible "D" that looms ahead if we don't support Arlen.
He then 'yielded' to Melissa Hart. She yucked it up with him for a moment (Think Sonny and Cher, except that Sonny was the conservative, not Cher.) before he stepped aside. About now, there should have been a commercial break, but they continued anyway. Melissa then spoke in glowing terms of Arlen and how important it was to put Arlen into office so that he could chair the Judiciary Committee and help get Bush's judicial nominees approved. She cited the brave defense of former PA Attorney General Mike Fisher when some Democrats posed some minor opposition to Mike's approval. Thank God, Arlen was there to save the day and he convinced the Dems not to block him. BTW, Fisher was supported in his quest for the bench by his recent opponent for the Governor's office - Democrat Governor Ed Rendell. Gee, that must have been a tough fight, Arlen.
What no Borking of Fisher? Don't worry, if Mike starts to make some sound judgements, you can bet that Arlen will apologize like he did after fighting for Clarence Thomas.
Melissa was about 3 minutes into her praise when I just couldn't take it any longer. There she was defending the man that has been pissing on us for years and she was calling it rain. I walked out. On the way out, I said to her brother that I just couldn't stand the BS.
I stayed outside for the remainder of the meeting. I missed the Q and A session, but was told that there was only one tough question asked and that Arlen spent about ten minutes addressing it. The question may have hit a nerve, but I doubt that he will do anything more than pay lip service to it.
Some good news. There was some who expressed continued opposition to him despite coming to be convinced that they should now be supporting him.
I did tell Melissa's aide that I was not alone in my displeasure with her support of Arlen. She may or may not care, but I am sure that I am quite right in my assessment. She is putting the party before any principle she ever espoused and this will cost her later.
Another person that I engaged was Rep. Habay. He arrived only after I had left the meeting and was outside for about 15 minutes. He approached me as he entered the building and I greeted him with a snide remark that he resembled a man that I used to know and told him that I was disappointed in his support for Arlen. He told me that Arlen helped him early in his 'career' (God, I hate that word when applied to politicians.) and that he was repaying the favor. (Doesn't the mob do favors now for favors in the future too?) I told him that that is what happens when you get into bed with the wrong people. He started getting testy at that point (I have to keep the BAD in badray, ya know) and retorted that he wasn't in bed with anyone, but that he would be glad to sit down and discuss the issue with me. I said OK, but he needed to dig himself out of a big hole. Walking away, he said that he was very comfortable in his position. I thanked him for telling me what I needed to know as he turned the corner (more than metaphorically?).
Just before Arlen came out, I spoke to County GOP Chairman Rich Stampahar and he tried to convince me that Specter was the man to support. His pleas fell on deaf ears, but they were overheard by an intern of Specter's who wimpily came over to tell me that this was a private event and asked me not to create a disturbance. I replied only that I was talking to people that knew me and approached me and wasn't talking to any one else. Can you imagine anyone thinking that I would cause a disturbance? LOL Not me, I'm too shy.
On the way out, Arlen either didn't recognize me or thought that I went over to the dark side and was now a supporter. He approached me to shake my hand, but I politely declined. I reserve my handshake for those that I respect.
Maybe I'm just not a 'good republican'. Maybe I'm an 'unappeasable'. Maybe I am a purist. I've been called all of these things and more. And worse.
What I do know is that I cannot support this man. Not for party loyalty, not even for the Senate majority (we do not effectively have it now because of people like Specter). I also know that it is not out of bitterness or hatred. It's just principle. He doesn't believe the things that I believe. He doesn't value the things that I value. His vision of America is not my vision.
This November, a vote for Democrat Joe Hoeffel is a vote to put a true conservative, a true Republican in charge of the Senate Judiciary Committee. I'm voting for Joe.
Ray Horvath
Your comparison does not apply to this debate, though. Badray insists we replace Specter (R) with Hoeffel (D), because Specter is "unreliable".
Specter's lifetime ACU rating is 43.
Hoeffel's lifetime ACU rating is 8.
Hillary's lifetime ACU rating is 11.
Bernie Sanders, admitted Socialist, ACU rating is 7.
I have been involved in unsuccessful attempts to defeat Specter in the past.
You might be surprised at what I know and understand about some of the participants of this debate and thus your assumption about my assumption is inaccurate. Regardless, I support whatever strategy is going to either promote conservatism or cause it the least damage.
How are you going to feel when Specter is reelected and blocks conservative appointments to the judiciary?
Now lets try this one more time:
He wants to replace him with Hoeffel because Specter, a PRO-CHOICE ADVOCATE will HEAD THE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE.
He wants to replace him with Hoeffel because Specter, a PRO-CHOICE ADVOCATE will HEAD THE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE.
He wants to replace him with Hoeffel because Specter, a PRO-CHOICE ADVOCATE will HEAD THE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE.
He wants to replace him with Hoeffel because Specter, a PRO-CHOICE ADVOCATE will HEAD THE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE
And Hoeffel will NOT HAVE THE POWER WHICH THAT POSITION HOLDS.
And Hoeffel will NOT HAVE THE POWER WHICH THAT POSITION HOLDS.
And Hoeffel will NOT HAVE THE POWER WHICH THAT POSITION HOLDS.
If you don't agree, then fine. But to belittle people for their ideas and counter the argument with personal attacks is not becoming of a Republican, or anyone else
And Hoeffel will NOT HAVE THE POWER WHICH THAT POSITION HOLDS.
And Hoeffel will NOT HAVE THE POWER WHICH THAT POSITION HOLDS
Is your Guru, badray holding Hare Khrishna chanting sessions now?
Seems like it, as you smokey deny the existance of Joe Hoeffel, kinda of like how the demos deny the existance of osama bin ladin and the rest of radical islam, IMO.
And may I inquirer of what's your parting gift from Hillary/Badray?
I do not deny the existance of Hoeffel, you just can not comprehend the difference between a junior liberal senator and a senior liberal senator, head of a judicial committee and I am guessing the appropriations committee. Where would you rather have a liberal ?
You can't do anything but throw insults, can you ? You can not have a disagreement without calling names, can you ? Makes me proud that you are a Republican.
Yeah right. Oh BTW, I don't buy bridges from street corner peddlers in Brooklyn.
you just can not comprehend the difference between a junior liberal senator and a senior liberal senator, head of a judicial committee and I am guessing the appropriations committee. Where would you rather have a liberal ?
Actually nowhere, but it seems that you wish to have Hoeffel(IIRC, who is in his 40's) there for another 30 years.
Just can't argue without the condescending remarks ?
Huh, well excuse me for telling persons who openly advoctae for Hoeffel(rottweiller_inc, Badray, smokeyb), that Hoeffel is a Hillary fly monkey, on FR.
you just can not comprehend the difference between a junior liberal senator and a senior liberal senator, head of a judicial committee and I am guessing the appropriations committee. Where would you rather have a liberal
Gee I guess Jamie Gorelick/Reno is more "conservative" than John Ashcroft, reading your rhetoric on this thread.
Sorry that your are deficeint in debating.
You are the only person who can help yourself.
Thank you for your kind words.
If you commented before and I missed you,I apologize
To make the above italicized passage timely and truthful, IMO, you should add the Hillary guffaw.
You Ray are the one promoting Hillary backed candidate, Joe Hoeffel.
Using condescending insults is debating ? did you learn "Whew, dude you are a feeb" in debate class ?
Great debate comeback, really advances your argument
you know..look at this:
Spector Vulnerable in Pennsylvania
Posted by rottweiller_inc to princess leah
On News/Activism 05/04/2004 4:12:22 PM PDT #44 of 48
From my mouth to your ears: i live in Pa and i couldn't vote for Toomey because i'm a registered libertarian(a formor republican). However Specter will feel my mite because i will vote for the democrat just to see him defeated. The defeat of a liberal, regardless of party, is what i care about.
Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies
and the response:
Spector Vulnerable in Pennsylvania
Posted by Doctor Stochastic to rottweiller_inc
On News/Activism 05/04/2004 8:15:31 PM PDT #46 of 48
Isn't Ms Clinton going to be chair of the Senate Armed Forces Committee? (And Lahey chair of the Jusiciary, and Daschle majority leader.)
what do you people plot together or does someone voting the way the feel best frighten you?
No reason for a debate class to use the word "feeb", IMO. The use of the word "feeb" comes from debating common sense.
A sense you and ray are deficeint of, IMO.
Good Going!
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