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Party Over Principle? (My lone FReep of Arlen Specter)
Self - Vanity | n/a | Self

Posted on 05/30/2004 8:54:37 PM PDT by Badray

Party over Principle?

That is the $64,000.00 question.

This past Friday morning, Arlen Specter was at a town hall meeting in Ross Township (suburb north of Pittsburgh PA). According to Specter staffer Justin Lokay, this was at the suggestion of Lou Nudi, the Ross Committee Chairman.

There were about 35 people in attendance including the Senator and 5 or 6 staffers and interns. Also there was Congresswoman Melissa Hart, State Senator John Pippy, former Hart staffer and 16th state house district candidate Pat Geho, former row office candidate Becky Toomey (oh, the irony, but she is still the prettiest, and my favorite Specter supporter), Lou Nudi, as well as some various other local committee people. Arriving late as usual was State Representative Jeff Habay. More on him later.

I arrived shortly before the meeting started and checked to see if I was on the PNG (persona non grata) list, but was welcomed in, much to my surprise because I have been barred from previous events. I sat and listened to how conservative values were important to Arlen, how much he enjoys being around G.W.Bush, and how we must defeat the Democrats.

This is a pretty stock speech when he tries to court Republicans. Sadly too many pubbies have short memories and actually believe Arlen when he speaks. He invoked the name of his recent challenger, Pat Toomey and says that he enjoys his support because the Dem candidate is so bad. Yada, yada, yada . . .

He then tried to ingratiate himself by mentioning the names of several people in the crowd. There names were conveniently written on the cue card in his hand. The whole thing was a sad charade, but that didn't stop many from sucking it up. I don't know if they were all die hard supporters or simply supporting the "R" against the horrible "D" that looms ahead if we don't support Arlen.

He then 'yielded' to Melissa Hart. She yucked it up with him for a moment (Think Sonny and Cher, except that Sonny was the conservative, not Cher.) before he stepped aside. About now, there should have been a commercial break, but they continued anyway. Melissa then spoke in glowing terms of Arlen and how important it was to put Arlen into office so that he could chair the Judiciary Committee and help get Bush's judicial nominees approved. She cited the brave defense of former PA Attorney General Mike Fisher when some Democrats posed some minor opposition to Mike's approval. Thank God, Arlen was there to save the day and he convinced the Dems not to block him. BTW, Fisher was supported in his quest for the bench by his recent opponent for the Governor's office - Democrat Governor Ed Rendell. Gee, that must have been a tough fight, Arlen.

What no Borking of Fisher? Don't worry, if Mike starts to make some sound judgements, you can bet that Arlen will apologize like he did after fighting for Clarence Thomas.

Melissa was about 3 minutes into her praise when I just couldn't take it any longer. There she was defending the man that has been pissing on us for years and she was calling it rain. I walked out. On the way out, I said to her brother that I just couldn't stand the BS.

I stayed outside for the remainder of the meeting. I missed the Q and A session, but was told that there was only one tough question asked and that Arlen spent about ten minutes addressing it. The question may have hit a nerve, but I doubt that he will do anything more than pay lip service to it.

Some good news. There was some who expressed continued opposition to him despite coming to be convinced that they should now be supporting him.

I did tell Melissa's aide that I was not alone in my displeasure with her support of Arlen. She may or may not care, but I am sure that I am quite right in my assessment. She is putting the party before any principle she ever espoused and this will cost her later.

Another person that I engaged was Rep. Habay. He arrived only after I had left the meeting and was outside for about 15 minutes. He approached me as he entered the building and I greeted him with a snide remark that he resembled a man that I used to know and told him that I was disappointed in his support for Arlen. He told me that Arlen helped him early in his 'career' (God, I hate that word when applied to politicians.) and that he was repaying the favor. (Doesn't the mob do favors now for favors in the future too?) I told him that that is what happens when you get into bed with the wrong people. He started getting testy at that point (I have to keep the BAD in badray, ya know) and retorted that he wasn't in bed with anyone, but that he would be glad to sit down and discuss the issue with me. I said OK, but he needed to dig himself out of a big hole. Walking away, he said that he was very comfortable in his position. I thanked him for telling me what I needed to know as he turned the corner (more than metaphorically?).

Just before Arlen came out, I spoke to County GOP Chairman Rich Stampahar and he tried to convince me that Specter was the man to support. His pleas fell on deaf ears, but they were overheard by an intern of Specter's who wimpily came over to tell me that this was a private event and asked me not to create a disturbance. I replied only that I was talking to people that knew me and approached me and wasn't talking to any one else. Can you imagine anyone thinking that I would cause a disturbance? LOL Not me, I'm too shy.

On the way out, Arlen either didn't recognize me or thought that I went over to the dark side and was now a supporter. He approached me to shake my hand, but I politely declined. I reserve my handshake for those that I respect.

Maybe I'm just not a 'good republican'. Maybe I'm an 'unappeasable'. Maybe I am a purist. I've been called all of these things and more. And worse.

What I do know is that I cannot support this man. Not for party loyalty, not even for the Senate majority (we do not effectively have it now because of people like Specter). I also know that it is not out of bitterness or hatred. It's just principle. He doesn't believe the things that I believe. He doesn't value the things that I value. His vision of America is not my vision.

This November, a vote for Democrat Joe Hoeffel is a vote to put a true conservative, a true Republican in charge of the Senate Judiciary Committee. I'm voting for Joe.

Ray Horvath


TOPICS: Free Republic; Government; Politics/Elections; US: Pennsylvania; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: aar; rino; specter
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To: Dane

Insults, the spelling police, more insults, and some vulgarity. I think that you've covered all the bases now except honest debate. Have you thought of trying that?


221 posted on 05/31/2004 3:00:06 PM PDT by Badray (Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown. RIP harpseal.)
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To: smokeyb
Dane, I worked my butt off for Toomey, hardly a DNC plant. Who did you work for ? Specter ? The RINO ?

Like I stated before, I couldn't vote for Toomey(since I do not live in PA) but if I had the opportunity, I would have.

BTW, interesting that you abandon Toomey after he endorsed Specter immeddiately after the primary.

222 posted on 05/31/2004 3:00:23 PM PDT by Dane
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To: Dane; Badray
BTW, to all lurkers one only has to look up "Pippy" in the FR search engine to see the dispicalble campaign his demo opponent waged.

And Badray is right, I was at that meeting too. I never saw Pippy squirm so much. Specter was just as "despicable" (you have a spelling problem too sometimes, eh ?)

223 posted on 05/31/2004 3:03:07 PM PDT by smokeyb
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To: Badray
Insults, the spelling police, more insults, and some vulgarity.

Well if you call someone on their fair weather friendness(i.e Badray going against Toomey's endorsement of Specter immediately after the primary) an insult, so be it.

The vulgarity is a natural progression of your back stabbing towards Toomey's own words.

224 posted on 05/31/2004 3:03:44 PM PDT by Dane
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To: smokeyb
And Badray is right, I(smokeyb) was at that meeting too. I never saw Pippy squirm so much.

Wow it only took you 223 replies to say such.

Whew you give credence to the definiton of skeptical, IMO, smokey.

225 posted on 05/31/2004 3:06:20 PM PDT by Dane
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To: Dane

I see you were correcting someone's spelling. Check your spelling of "immediately." It's not correct.


226 posted on 05/31/2004 3:07:41 PM PDT by Dr. Scarpetta
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To: Dane
BTW, interesting that you abandon Toomey after he endorsed Specter immeddiately after the primary.

I have not abandoned him, I am angry with him. Just as I am angry with Bush but have not abandoned him. But I will not kiss his ring on everything he does. If I think they are heading in the wrong direction, I will try to correct their course, not go over the cliff with them.

227 posted on 05/31/2004 3:08:15 PM PDT by smokeyb
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To: Dane

Pippy isn't the issue, but I have addressed him in response to your last comment about him.

I posted. I did one ping. I did one other ping 4 hours later. I reply to comments made to me and "I'm spamming my thread".

Dane, you are a piece of work. Since you fail to address the theme of this thread, I will not be addressing you any more. Your intent seems to be to insult, obfuscate, and distract.

And the last thing that I want anyone to do is point out your own spelling error in the post to which I am responding. I wouldn't want to lower my response ration and disappoint you.

Discuss the merits or go away.


228 posted on 05/31/2004 3:10:12 PM PDT by Badray (Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown. RIP harpseal.)
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To: F16Fighter
54 - 35 = 21.

"LOL -- d@mn, that was good!"

It would have been better if my math was any good. Apparently, they changed it to be 54 - 35 = 19 and I never got the memo. LOL

But it is still a net gain.

229 posted on 05/31/2004 3:15:26 PM PDT by Badray (Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown. RIP harpseal.)
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To: Badray
Pippy isn't the issue,

Uh Ray you mentioned him in your screed, so he is an issue. Can't help it that you basically trash Pippy as his demo opponent did back in 2002.

230 posted on 05/31/2004 3:15:48 PM PDT by Dane
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To: trillium
Just because the majority of Republicans prefer Specter does not make them wrong, or stupid.

The majority of Pennsylvania Republicans do NOT prefer Specter. Specter was on television, in the papers, at the unions, begging pro-union Dems to switch their party registration for this primary.

The majority of conservatives in our commonwealth despise Specter. I don't believe he will win in the general election. Of course it is just my opinion, but I believe the Bush team terribly miscalculated the showing Toomey would have (due mostly for the Right's despisal of Specter). PA conservatives feel betrayed by the president and he has certainly lost some worker bees this fall. The powerful pro-life PACs in PA are seriously considering asking people to vote for Hoeffel instead of abstaining or writing in a third party candidate.

I don't believe I can vote for Hoeffel, but you could put bamboo shoots under my fingernails and I will not pull that lever for Scottish law Specter.

231 posted on 05/31/2004 3:16:46 PM PDT by old and tired
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To: Dane
Wow it only took you 223 replies to say such.

Whew you give credence to the definiton of skeptical, IMO, smokey.

Are you saying I can't hear the same thing ? Or are you calling me a liar ? I am sure I could get numerous affidavits signed that saw it too.

232 posted on 05/31/2004 3:16:53 PM PDT by smokeyb
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To: Dane
JMO, it seems you are rooting for ACU lifetime rating of 08, Hoeffel.

These fringenutty clowns expect everybody to admire their Conservative principles as they vote for a Democrat with an ACU rating of 8.

233 posted on 05/31/2004 3:19:19 PM PDT by Barlowmaker
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To: Dr. Scarpetta; smokeyb
I see you were correcting someone's spelling. Check your spelling of "immediately." It's not correct.

Thank you for the correction. I have always admitted on FR that I am not the best speller or typist, but smokey's use of "principal" for "principle" is a basic misunderstanding of the word and should be corrected, IMO.

234 posted on 05/31/2004 3:20:08 PM PDT by Dane
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To: trillium
Here is the difference: If Toomey had won the primary, the Specter people would be working their hearts out for him right now.

You're dreaming if you believe this. Many of Specter's most ardent supporters are registered Dems. Specter and Hoeffel have identical bases - rich limosine liberals and union members. Without a conservative network of support, I believe Arlen will lose in the Fall.

235 posted on 05/31/2004 3:20:41 PM PDT by old and tired
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To: trillium

Is the emperor ever naked to you?

Can he do no wrong?

Do you know that you are still allowed to criticize politicians. At least up until 30 days before the election?


236 posted on 05/31/2004 3:22:16 PM PDT by Badray (Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown. RIP harpseal.)
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To: Barlowmaker

Specter's rating without his election years is almost as poor. If Specter wins this time around, he's too old and ridden with brain tumors to have a conservative year to bring up his average.


237 posted on 05/31/2004 3:22:56 PM PDT by old and tired
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To: smokeyb
Are you saying I can't hear the same thing ? Or are you calling me a liar ? I am sure I could get numerous affidavits signed that saw it too

Uh no smokey, it only took you 223 replies before you admitted that you were there(supposedly, IMO).

BTW, calling for legal action on a fairly friendly FR thread, is the last hideout of a scoundrel, IMO.

238 posted on 05/31/2004 3:23:06 PM PDT by Dane
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To: smokeyb

smokey, please tell your 'FRiend' Dane that you were at the YR meeting, not the one that is the focus of this thread. He's confused.

Also tell him that I am not to blame for how he posts. If he chooses insults instead of debate, if he uses vulgarity rather than reason, those are his choices, not mine.

I'd tell, but we aren't on speaking terms. LOL


239 posted on 05/31/2004 3:27:03 PM PDT by Badray (Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown. RIP harpseal.)
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To: Dane
Thank you for the correction. I have always admitted on FR that I am not the best speller or typist, but smokey's use of "principal" for "principle" is a basic misunderstanding of the word and should be corrected, IMO

I know the difference, Dane . And I admit that I also err when typing in a hurry. so do others but they usually understand how it happens. But most people have the maturity to overlook it. Unfortunately I lowered myself once and did it too but I regret it. But if you want we can go through this whole thread and I will point out numerous errors you have made.

The problem is that it is YOU that don't seem to have an understanding of the word PRINCIPLE, or don't care about it.

240 posted on 05/31/2004 3:32:30 PM PDT by smokeyb
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