Posted on 05/30/2004 8:54:37 PM PDT by Badray
Party over Principle?
That is the $64,000.00 question.
This past Friday morning, Arlen Specter was at a town hall meeting in Ross Township (suburb north of Pittsburgh PA). According to Specter staffer Justin Lokay, this was at the suggestion of Lou Nudi, the Ross Committee Chairman.
There were about 35 people in attendance including the Senator and 5 or 6 staffers and interns. Also there was Congresswoman Melissa Hart, State Senator John Pippy, former Hart staffer and 16th state house district candidate Pat Geho, former row office candidate Becky Toomey (oh, the irony, but she is still the prettiest, and my favorite Specter supporter), Lou Nudi, as well as some various other local committee people. Arriving late as usual was State Representative Jeff Habay. More on him later.
I arrived shortly before the meeting started and checked to see if I was on the PNG (persona non grata) list, but was welcomed in, much to my surprise because I have been barred from previous events. I sat and listened to how conservative values were important to Arlen, how much he enjoys being around G.W.Bush, and how we must defeat the Democrats.
This is a pretty stock speech when he tries to court Republicans. Sadly too many pubbies have short memories and actually believe Arlen when he speaks. He invoked the name of his recent challenger, Pat Toomey and says that he enjoys his support because the Dem candidate is so bad. Yada, yada, yada . . .
He then tried to ingratiate himself by mentioning the names of several people in the crowd. There names were conveniently written on the cue card in his hand. The whole thing was a sad charade, but that didn't stop many from sucking it up. I don't know if they were all die hard supporters or simply supporting the "R" against the horrible "D" that looms ahead if we don't support Arlen.
He then 'yielded' to Melissa Hart. She yucked it up with him for a moment (Think Sonny and Cher, except that Sonny was the conservative, not Cher.) before he stepped aside. About now, there should have been a commercial break, but they continued anyway. Melissa then spoke in glowing terms of Arlen and how important it was to put Arlen into office so that he could chair the Judiciary Committee and help get Bush's judicial nominees approved. She cited the brave defense of former PA Attorney General Mike Fisher when some Democrats posed some minor opposition to Mike's approval. Thank God, Arlen was there to save the day and he convinced the Dems not to block him. BTW, Fisher was supported in his quest for the bench by his recent opponent for the Governor's office - Democrat Governor Ed Rendell. Gee, that must have been a tough fight, Arlen.
What no Borking of Fisher? Don't worry, if Mike starts to make some sound judgements, you can bet that Arlen will apologize like he did after fighting for Clarence Thomas.
Melissa was about 3 minutes into her praise when I just couldn't take it any longer. There she was defending the man that has been pissing on us for years and she was calling it rain. I walked out. On the way out, I said to her brother that I just couldn't stand the BS.
I stayed outside for the remainder of the meeting. I missed the Q and A session, but was told that there was only one tough question asked and that Arlen spent about ten minutes addressing it. The question may have hit a nerve, but I doubt that he will do anything more than pay lip service to it.
Some good news. There was some who expressed continued opposition to him despite coming to be convinced that they should now be supporting him.
I did tell Melissa's aide that I was not alone in my displeasure with her support of Arlen. She may or may not care, but I am sure that I am quite right in my assessment. She is putting the party before any principle she ever espoused and this will cost her later.
Another person that I engaged was Rep. Habay. He arrived only after I had left the meeting and was outside for about 15 minutes. He approached me as he entered the building and I greeted him with a snide remark that he resembled a man that I used to know and told him that I was disappointed in his support for Arlen. He told me that Arlen helped him early in his 'career' (God, I hate that word when applied to politicians.) and that he was repaying the favor. (Doesn't the mob do favors now for favors in the future too?) I told him that that is what happens when you get into bed with the wrong people. He started getting testy at that point (I have to keep the BAD in badray, ya know) and retorted that he wasn't in bed with anyone, but that he would be glad to sit down and discuss the issue with me. I said OK, but he needed to dig himself out of a big hole. Walking away, he said that he was very comfortable in his position. I thanked him for telling me what I needed to know as he turned the corner (more than metaphorically?).
Just before Arlen came out, I spoke to County GOP Chairman Rich Stampahar and he tried to convince me that Specter was the man to support. His pleas fell on deaf ears, but they were overheard by an intern of Specter's who wimpily came over to tell me that this was a private event and asked me not to create a disturbance. I replied only that I was talking to people that knew me and approached me and wasn't talking to any one else. Can you imagine anyone thinking that I would cause a disturbance? LOL Not me, I'm too shy.
On the way out, Arlen either didn't recognize me or thought that I went over to the dark side and was now a supporter. He approached me to shake my hand, but I politely declined. I reserve my handshake for those that I respect.
Maybe I'm just not a 'good republican'. Maybe I'm an 'unappeasable'. Maybe I am a purist. I've been called all of these things and more. And worse.
What I do know is that I cannot support this man. Not for party loyalty, not even for the Senate majority (we do not effectively have it now because of people like Specter). I also know that it is not out of bitterness or hatred. It's just principle. He doesn't believe the things that I believe. He doesn't value the things that I value. His vision of America is not my vision.
This November, a vote for Democrat Joe Hoeffel is a vote to put a true conservative, a true Republican in charge of the Senate Judiciary Committee. I'm voting for Joe.
Ray Horvath
Given the hypothetical situation of having both the democrat and the Republican supporting the same liberal issues, I fear it may be better for the democrat to win. Although this might compromise the majority leadership and give that democrat the advantage of incumbency, it may be the only way to get a real Republican in next time. Political primaries, particularly open primaries, can not be allowed to define our ideology. Party membership has to be more than a label or an avenue to power. We need to have a standard for membership, and that may require discarding those who don't meet it. Of what use would it be if everyone in congress called themselves a Republican but they all voted like liberals? Would it be better to have an ideologically conservative party in the minority or a fractured and corrupted party in the majority?
I only wish I had the answers.
Ciexyz, Badray, as of 5/31/04 appx. 1:46 PM EDT, has made appx. 48 replies to his own thread, out of 120.
Anybody who has modicum of the math of percentages, can see that Badray is generating the replies to this thread.
(I.E 48 replies(Badray's) out of the appx. 120 replies is a little over 33%)
JMO, someone(Badray) likes to hear himself type.
Ciexyx, Specter does this all the time, but with our principles.
Thanks for your kind words and support.
Did you get my last FReepmail? I thought that your previous message was sent to me in error (or lacking explanation) and this post convinces me that my guess was right.
Please FReepmail if you have any question about this.
Thanks.
Thank you ! As I have asked before, if Hilliary Clinton became a Republican, who would you vote for ? Her or Zell Miller ?
And you are still whistling past the graveyard.
Open your eyes and your brain to see what is at stake here. If your values are the same as mine, but we disagree on strategy we can talk.
But if you don't care about good judges, the sanctity of life, gun rights, and our national sovereignty and continue to think that Specter is just fine, then we have nothing further to discuss. But your union will probably to ask you to vote for Hoeffel too. This time, you should listen.
I tend to believe that you fall into the latter rather than the former group.
Dane, I think you better do a little deeper analysis. These numbers are only because Badray stays up all night like the Kool-aid drinkers. I see those numbers averaging out now that the graveyard shift is over.
He also voted to subject our soldiers to the International Criminal Court (ICC) where they will not have the protection of the US Constitution and Bill of Rights.
He also thinks that ICC should try Saddam Hussein, not the Iraqi people that he terrorized for decades.
It seems that he wants government officials to be judged by other government officials rather than by citizens.
Nah, Badray is taking the Jesse Jackson route, IMO. "Keep hope alive", even though the person Badray endorsed, Patrick Toomey, has publicly stated that Specter is a better candidate than the one Badray is trying to push on his thread, Hillary backed Joe Hoeffel.
The I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine mentality, doesn't work for me if we are considering people who are diametrically opposed. However, I do expect to be supported by those who share my social values and political vision. If I can't count on them, who can I count on? In that case, if they don't support me, I won't support them.
Ah, yes shaking Specter's hand. He was the first politician whose hand I ever shook, or should I say shook mine. At the time I was 13 and he was running for District Attorney. I was exiting a clothing store, my mind reeling with the endless combination of clothes I might purchase, and he grabbed my hand. I thought what the heck?? and then saw some political signs and realized he was running for office; the name on the sign was Arlen Specter. How could I have ever imagined he would one day become for me, a political enemy and pariah, I so greatly despise. If he went to grab my hand to day, I would pull it back. I applaud you for not shaking his hand.
That with Senators like Arlen Specter, we do not have a true majority is an excellent and most persuasive point.
Conservatives have to raise as much money as we can and run candidates against the RINO's. Eventually they are going to begin winning. Then we won't have to worry about this kind of thing as much.
It is interesting that one is supposed to support those who have done political favors for one, regardless of ideology, but if one hurts one politically, THAT is a favor which shouldn't be returned. An Unfortunate fact of life in party politics.
You really don't understand too much, do you? As good as Toomey is, and as much as I like him, Toomey didn't mobilize anything. The grassroots saw him for a principled conservative and became involved. It was Toomey's supporters who mostly mobilized other Toomey supporters. I'm mean this from an organizational point of view. The team structure was loose and actually quite lacking. It was the enthusiasm for Pat's MESSAGE that resonated with people.
The 'party' hasn't learned any lesson that will last past this November. They are just trying to mend fences and build new bridges to the right since they burned the old ones over the past year.
" Isn't this what you wanted, Badray? Your man is moving up within the Party. Everything in good time. It just wasn't his time to be Senator."
No! I could care less about 'party'. I want principled people to hold elective office. The 'party' shouldn't be deciding who runs. The people should be doing that and the 'party' tried to impose it's will on the people. It worked so far, but we still have another chance at the brass ring.
If allowed to stand, the 'big tent' will be the death of the GOP as a vehicle for conservative values.
Running out of arguments and now resorting to scurrilous inuendoes. You should be ashamed of yourself, but I doubt that you are.
Thanks, Jim. It may not be easy, but I'm in good company.
Time out there, Badray.
Toomey did mobilize you. You were on FR promoting his candidacy.
Now you abandon him after he publicly states that Specter is better than Hoeffel.
JMO, it's all about you, and noticing that almost 40% of the replies on this thread were made by you, I believe that is the case.
Thanks, Libertina.
I have to stir the pot. It's my job as a Political Arsonist.
Give it time to sink in and my solution is not as ludicrous or despicable as it first sounds. Focus on the Judiciary Committee and who you want to chair it -- Specter or Kyl. All else pales in comparison.
Have a safe and happy holiday.
Which is, IMO, pushing your agenda for Jillary candiate, Joe Hoeffel.
After 24 years it is time to be rid of him.
I've met Jim, and he is a good man. I have voted for him in the past when he ran with Peg Luksik. But there is no way that a 3rd party or write in candidate can win or take enough votes from Specter. No other effort will remove Specter.
You know how bad Specter is. Let's get rid of him while we have a chance. Right now, this November is our best chance.
Worked for me
Oh, c'mon Bill. I have it on good authority that you are a delegate for Queen Hillary on her next run. LOL
Specter has already turned his back on Bush and dissed him 3 times in the past month since the primary. His 'payback' will be a stab in the back.
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