Iraq Artillery Shell Contained 3-4 Liters of Sarin

Fox News ^ | May 17, 2004

[Living Free in NH]

Breaking news ... nothing follows

[Poohbah]

That is to say: "Hold mah beer an watch this!!"

Naw. For these guys, it's "Hold muh Koran and watch this!"

[nuffsenuff]

What if they were able to mix the contents and immediately blow up the explosives in the round?

We're talking about the same people who drive trucks packed with explosives into buildings, etc...

One guy driving, the other in the back of the van working the shell. At the right time, the driver steps on it, the guy in the back mixes the chemicals and lights the fuse... how about that scenario? It may not work 9 out of 10 times. But do you really think they wouldn't try?

[ridesthemiles]

As a roadside bomb, not as effective.

This is a TEST. This is ONLY a TEST.

[hawkaw]

Thanks for letting me know about how serious this stuff can be.

I have the deepest respect for some of the SF guys in the military of Canada. I've ready stories of the distance some of them were making sniper shots at against the Taliban in Afghanistan and it was in mind boggling.

I think they belong to the JTF-2 (Joint Task Force Two) who train north of me near Ottawa. They are good and deploy quite quickly with our communications teams. I think they also helped out in taking over the airport in Haiti if memory serves.

I do not know of any but living in Kingston, Ontario (near CFB Barriefield/Kingston)(and close to Fort Drum near Watertown NY) I get to know some Canadian Armed Forces staff who are involved in communications and intelligence. One of my friends is down in Tampa working out of CENTCOM right now (of course we aren't officially in the Iraq war but taking care of certain logistics in Iraq is his main duty - snicker). Another friend, who was in military intelligence and did a lot of work in Halfganistan as well as for the ships that are continuing work in the seas near Afganistan and the Middle East, is in the process of just getting out of the military after 25 years of service.

They all say our military needs a lot of improvement especially in the field of new aircraft to replace our aging C130s and of course I tend to agree.

Take care and like I said - its a honour to meet you. I hope people take these WMD findings very seriously now - especially in the USA.

hawk

[Zhangliqun]

By the way, Mr. Galt, my brother is in the Army. He is not now and has not been in Iraq, though during the initial phases of the Afghanistan campaign, he was commandant of the Cold Weather Warfare Training Center in Alaska. They almost sent him to Uzbekistan to set up a similar training center there but didn't.

He has been light infantry throughout his career, including the 82nd Airborne when he was an enlisted man back in the early 80's. He is a captain now and currently a liaison with the Indiana National Guard. He trained some of the Indiana NG units at platoon and company level that went to Iraq. He was upset that he had only a few weeks when he needed several months, especially since these units are the ones driving the convoys that are the biggest targets for the Baathists and assorted Islamo-thugs there, but there just wasn't time.

He may soon be promoted to major and could get a post as a battalion XO in a combat unit and get sent over there at some point.

In other words, Mr. Galt, he could still get sent to Iraq and die there. And while that is an extremely unpleasant prospect for me, I AM WILLING to sacrifice him to defend this country and civilization in general. The Cumbaya Doctrine notwithstanding, I don't see that there is any choice.

What do you think of that?

[Lady Heron]

If we have it from the 2001-2003 timeframe, it's a lot more bulletproof that it would be f this were made in 1990.

But why is it more bulletproof? I mean our main reason for going were those stockpiles he had supposedly not proven he had destroyed. The secondary reason was for weapons he might be manufacturing currently because he had the knowledge and since he had kicked the inspectors out we could not monitor what was going on.

So I still do not understand why being newer would be more solid when the older is what we were looking for to begin with. Being newer would be more interesting to be sure but what was important was those stockpiles not being given to terrorist that Saddam could easily hand over too.

[sphinx]

Your math is a little off. Your lethal dose is for perfect conditions. Out in the real world the LCt50 (dose required to be lethal for 50% of those exposed) for vaporized Sarin gas is 100mg per m3 (remember it is normally a liquid).

Thanks. As usual around here, someone has answered my question before I've fully formulated it.

Of course, if the political dynamics of this were reversed (if this were, say, a hazmat release and a big bad company could be blamed), the worst case reckoning would be drummed into the public 24/7.

[Steve_Seattle]

"Especially considering that the chances of there being just one of these in Iraq are nil."

Yes, and we shouldn't let Dems get away with saying there was only one of these; chances are there are dozens, perhaps hundreds or even thousands. But unless we find a warehouse full of these, the Dems will continue to say there were no WMD's. But I think even this one find will -among middle-of-the-road voters - establish considerable credibility for the WMD claim.

[hchutch]

Chemical weapons lose their potency as they get older.

Newer stuff from the 2001-2003 timeframe would also show that Saddam Hussein was still attempting to maintain an arsenal of chemical weapons.

[Steve_Seattle]

"This is a TEST. This is ONLY a TEST."

I've been skipping through the thread, so I don't know if this point has made made, and it's in line with yours: If the terrorists knew what this was (which I think is highly probable), and if they only had one of these, they wouldn't have wasted it as an ordinary roadside bomb, which would only kill a few. No, they would want to use it more effectively, in a crowded area. So I think this was a test, and that they have more of these bombs, perhaps many more.

[JohnGalt]

Lack the courage to sign up yourself?

[Gucho]

Just caught on Fox News a rocket launcher found near Atlanta. No more info at moment

[Frank_Discussion]

Too old, ya dink. That's you're response to all of this? How very weak of you.

[nuffsenuff]

If that isn't a typical liberal remark, I don't know what is.

[Frank_Discussion]

hmm... zoinks.

[rintense]

They're also giving them instructions on how to use them correctly. How much do you wanna bet the insurgents/terrorists who 'found' this seemingly normal bomb are now looking for more just like it- to use it as intended?

[txradioguy]

"Lack the courage to sign up yourself?"


Here we have the ranDUM thoughts of a mental midget.

[menotyu]

Oh, and chems aren't WMD's anyway, only nukes are

Yeah right I bet the libs do say that, but I found this little bit on the BBC website from '98;

How deadly is it?

Sarin is 20 times as deadly as cyanide. It has been described as the poor man's atomic bomb because of the large numbers of people that can be killed by a small amount. A drop the size of a pin-head is sufficient to kill a person.

I think that would classify it as a WMD. Maybe someone knows the answer to this, How many drops of water are in 1 litre? So you figure times that by 3 and that could be your theoretical bodycount

[txradioguy]

"How much do you wanna bet the insurgents/terrorists who 'found' this seemingly normal bomb are now looking for more just like it- to use it as intended?"

I have a sneaking suspcion the thugs who set that bomb are going right back to where they got it from. They probably came across a pile of these shells to use for IED's. Now that they know what they have they'll go back to that stockpile and get more.

Now if we could just track these rats back to their hole...we might find a pretty nice little stash of WMD artillery shells.

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

My guess, given the limited symptoms, was that it was binary. Some mixing occurred and a small amount of sarin was released, but a shell with 3-4 liters of straight sarin would likely have killed anyone exposed to it.

I figure only the primer went off and just ruptured the seal between the two chem's, so only a very small amount mixed together. Either that or they were very quickly treated and most of the sarin soaked into the ground.