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Female GI In Abuse Photos Talks
CBSNEWS ^ | 5/12/04 | CBSNEWS.com

Posted on 05/12/2004 7:21:05 AM PDT by NYC Republican

Army Pfc. Lynndie England, seen worldwide in photographs that show her smiling and pointing at naked Iraqi prisoners, said she was ordered to pose for the photos, and felt "kind of weird" in doing so.

In an exclusive interview with Brian Maass of Denver CBS station KCNC-TV, England also confirmed that abuses worse than those depicted in the photos were carried out at the U.S.-run Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad, but she declined to discuss them.

England, 21, repeatedly insisted that her actions were dictated by "persons in my higher chain of command."

In the photos, England is seen smiling, cigarette in her mouth, as she leans forward and points at the genitals of a naked, hooded Iraqis. Another photo taken at Abu Ghraib shows her holding a leash that encircles the neck of a naked Iraqi man lying on his side.

"I was instructed by persons in higher rank to stand there and hold this leash and look at the camera," she said.

England said the actions depicted in the photos were intended to put psychological pressure on the Iraqi prisoners.

"Well, I mean, they [the photos] were for psy-op reasons," she said "And the reasons worked. I mean, so to us, we were doing our job, which meant we were doing what we were told, and the outcome was what they wanted. They'd come back and they'd look at the pictures, and they'd state, 'Oh, that's a good tactic, keep it up. That's working. This is working. Keep doing it. It's getting what we need.'"

England, an Army reservist from West Virginia who is four months pregnant, is now stationed at Fort Bragg in North Carolina. The interview was taped Tuesday at Fort Bragg.

England is among seven soldiers from the 372nd Military Police Company who face charges for allegedly degrading and humiliating Iraqi prisoners. One soldier, Spc. Jeremy C. Sivits of Hyndman, Pa., will face a court-martial in Baghdad next week.

"To all of us who have been charged, we all agree that we don't feel like we were doing things that we weren't supposed to, because we were told to do them. We think everything was justified, because we were instructed to do this and to do that," England said.

She told KCNC she was looking forward to having her baby and hopefully one day putting the abuse scandal behind her.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Government; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: iraqipow; r2i
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To: A. Pole
"Gee, you are one of the few "godless atheists" who managed to fashion and follow their own moral code. But not many people can do that. "

It's not so rare for non-believers to have a very strong moral code. In fact, I've known many atheists who have a moral code you would be hard-pressed to tell from anyone else's.

My moral code is based on the basic moral code of western civilization, and is in line with the basic moral code of most societies. It has its roots in the concept of "do no harm to others, except to prevent harm by others."

Before I act, I consider this rule.
161 posted on 05/12/2004 10:28:05 AM PDT by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: elfman2
That statement of hers is indicative of sloppy thinking.

Sloppy thinking is a requirement to get in such situation.

162 posted on 05/12/2004 10:28:06 AM PDT by A. Pole (<SARCASM> The genocide of Albanians was stopped in its tracks before it began.</S>)
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To: NYC Republican
10-4. Roger that.
163 posted on 05/12/2004 10:49:52 AM PDT by RetiredArmy (We'll put a boot in your ass, it's the American Way! Toby Keith)
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To: NYC Republican
Persons in her higher chain of command ordered her to participate in the photos. Well, that could be a corporal or sergeant. Why won't she name those persons?

Secondly, if the person(s) giving the orders was in her chain of command, then this would exclude any Military Intelligence or civilian contractors. So that line of exculpatory reasoning would be useless to her defense.

I'm beginning to think segregating her from the others involved was a good idea. The inconsistencies in their excuses expose that this was not behavior sanctioned by higher authorities, but the foolish actions of a few.
164 posted on 05/12/2004 11:00:38 AM PDT by Poodlebrain
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To: ASA Vet
Your post @ 52. Out freaking standing. Good for him.

I was Sergeant of the Guard in my Armored Cav unit in Bad Kissingen, Germany back in 1971-72 era. I had this guy on my guard detail, a Private Moose. Ole Moose was a total dud. Had been in trouble countless times.

This one night Moose and another guy were on guard at the air field where the choppers were parked. The other guy wanted to sit down and go to sleep. Moose told him to do what he wanted to do, he was going to continue to walk his post, that he had been in trouble enough times and did not want to end up in jail.

Moose was walking the post on the other side of the field when he saw a VW pull up. Some guy in an Army uniform getting out. Moose started to trot across the air strip to see who it was, when he saw the guy walk up to the sleeping guard and reach down and pick up his M-16!!! Moose started running, pulled out his .45 and yelled to the VW driver to drop the weapon and back away. The sleeping guy started waking up, seeing this guy standing near him with an M-16 and freaked out. The VW driver started to get into his VW with the M16 and Moose ran harder to get there. He was probably 400 yards away. He got there just as the VW driver started to drive away. He yelled stop or I will shoot. The guy laughed and kept driving. Moose leveled his pistol and shot through the door of the VW, hitting the guy in the left side of his butt!!! The VW drove away fast. Moose got on the phone and called me at the guard house, which was about 8 miles away. I called down to the officer who was on duty that night and he and I ran out to the jeep to go to the air field when this VW pulls up. The guy says the guard at the air field shot him. I asked him if he took the M16 and he said yes, and gave it to me, and told me he was going to bring it to the guard house and tell me that he caught my guard sleeping on duty. We had him shipped to the local German hospital for treatment.

The LT and I then drove to the air strip and soon the battalion commander and command sergeant major arrived. Our company commander also came out there. Moose told me what happened, that he though the guy was stealing the M16. I told him he did right!!!

Later, the VW driver wanted to get Moose court-martialed for shooting him. Our company commander was going to do that, but my platoon sergeant, the first sergeant and me all told the commander he was wrong, that Moose did his job. The other guy, from another Troop (company) was wrong and sleeping on guard, not Moose. The battalion commander also backed up what Moose did and instead of getting a court-martial for shooting the VW driver, Moose got a letter of commendation from the battalion commander for doing his job!

So, the moral of the story is, do your job, do what is right, do it right everytime, and you will not get into trouble. Just do your stinking job!

165 posted on 05/12/2004 11:01:33 AM PDT by RetiredArmy (We'll put a boot in your ass, it's the American Way! Toby Keith)
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To: NYC Republican; thegreatbeast
What makes you think that a pregnant 21-year-old from the holler is lying?

She said she was instructed to do it.

Let's let the evidence speak before we decide. At this point, we don't have any evidence one way or the other.

And it's not unusual for a soldier to have a civilian lawyer. Most of them, when being prosecuted by the military, do not feel comfortable with their lawyer being an officer in the military who is being rated by a senior officer in the military.

Let's wait on facts on this one.

The beheading of Nick Berg has pointed out how berg's murder is an atrocity while abu ghraib was abuse. Huge difference.
166 posted on 05/12/2004 11:22:14 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army and Proud of It!)
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To: NYC Republican
"I think you're showing yourself to be the idiot on this thread."

You would think that, given your room temperature IQ. You should probably grow a thicker skin if you want to post here. There is no way to tell if the poster is mentally handicapped and so the replies to idiotic posts can sometimes be a bit harsh. Sorry if I hurt your feelings.
167 posted on 05/12/2004 11:27:09 AM PDT by monday
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To: Old Sarge; kjfine
Interesting ping

What's your take?
168 posted on 05/12/2004 11:38:23 AM PDT by StarCMC (Please pray for the 2/7 Marines and Josh.)
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To: MineralMan
The same applies today in regard to illegal orders.
169 posted on 05/12/2004 11:42:51 AM PDT by kjfine (Home, and loving it!!!)
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To: monday
And you know this HOW? Were you there? If you have evidence to back up your claim lets hear it. If not, STFU.

She is a liar because she wasn't even assigned to this prison wing; she was there visiting her boy friend; she wasn't ordered to do anything, because she wasn't suppose to be there.

And why on earth would you take the word of somebody trying to save their sorry A$$ by blaming everybody else for actions she clearly participated in willingly -- and apparently had a damn good time while she was doing it.

Now, I have given you evidence; want to tell ME to STFU?

170 posted on 05/12/2004 11:47:02 AM PDT by Howlin
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To: NYC Republican
I wonder where her family tree wanders........probably not far....
171 posted on 05/12/2004 11:50:03 AM PDT by cherry
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To: StarCMC
If she was ordered to do this, then she followed an illegal order. Not only should she be punished for her actions, but the NCO's/Officer's who gave and/or knew about the orders should be punished. As the Commander of my unit, I am responsible for all that my people do. All I see here is a finger pointing exercise. I know that I wouldn't want to serve beside any of them if they do not have the brains to know what is legal vs. illegal. Personally, I am ashamed that this happened. If they are convicted, I think that they should get the maximum penalty with no chance for parole. This fiasco has already cost one man his life that we know about, and that was a gruesome and painful death that was broadcast on the internet. That is not to say that those responsible for that should not be sought out and ripped apart slowly.
172 posted on 05/12/2004 11:53:07 AM PDT by kjfine (Home, and loving it!!!)
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To: StarCMC; kjfine; NYC Republican; Howlin; RetiredArmy; All
I have no comment on this whole matter.

No one would believe me if I told them.

Then again, no one believes me if I don't. No-win scenario.
173 posted on 05/12/2004 12:00:11 PM PDT by Old Sarge
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To: NYC Republican
England, 21, repeatedly insisted that her actions were dictated by "persons in my higher chain of command."

I guess she was asleep in basic training where they explain that you don't have to follow an illegal order and also outline what an illegal order consists of.

In the pics it doesn't appear she is under duress.

174 posted on 05/12/2004 12:00:56 PM PDT by hattend (Only Libs can find mandatory death in the Constitution (see abortion and T. Schiavo))
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To: Howlin
"Now, I have given you evidence; want to tell ME to STFU?"

Not at all. You have a point and you might be right. If NYRepublican had bothered to give reasons for his opinion I wouldn't have been so hard on him/her.

I was not defending England. I just have a problem with people who leap to conclusions based on feelings. If they can present a coherent argument for their conclusions let us hear it, otherwise they should STFU.
175 posted on 05/12/2004 12:04:39 PM PDT by monday
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To: NYC Republican
She's a lying disgrace.

I saw that you're getting some heat for saying that, but I agree with you. Of course Leash Girl is a lying disgrace. For one thing, she was a clerk who had no reason to be in the prison in the first place, other than to visit her boyfriend, so her claims of being ordered to do this don't pass the smell test.

For another thing, Little Miss Innocent, who claims she was just following orders, obviously didn't follow the official orders from the military not to have sex over there (and that order goes for sex with a fellow soldier, CPA employee, or Iraqi civilian). Notice how she not only flagrantly disobeyed that one by getting pregnant, but she is said to have had these trysts taped!

176 posted on 05/12/2004 12:06:12 PM PDT by NYCVirago
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To: NYC Republican
A true soldier in the same vain as HACKworth; blame everyone else for your failures and lack of honor.
177 posted on 05/12/2004 12:07:58 PM PDT by CWOJackson
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To: wolficatZ
She's got spunk. Chases tornadoes.

What makes you think she's got spunk? She sounds like every other whiny crybaby who gets caught and blames everybody else but themselves.

178 posted on 05/12/2004 12:08:10 PM PDT by NYCVirago
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To: monday
No, it's not I "might" be right. I am right.

I find it humorous that you are demanding "coherent" replies. You don't seem to be able to post without denigrading other posters.
179 posted on 05/12/2004 12:08:47 PM PDT by Howlin
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To: kjfine
" This fiasco has already cost one man his life that we know about, and that was a gruesome and painful death that was broadcast on the internet."

You are kidding right? If you believe that then you are believing exactly what the terrorists want you to believe. Their excuse for Bergs death was the prison abuse. The truth is there is no excuse. Don't be like the liberal media and let them get away with it. Think for yourself.
180 posted on 05/12/2004 12:10:15 PM PDT by monday
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