Female GI In Abuse Photos Talks

CBSNEWS ^ | 5/12/04 | CBSNEWS.com

[NYC Republican]

Army Pfc. Lynndie England, seen worldwide in photographs that show her smiling and pointing at naked Iraqi prisoners, said she was ordered to pose for the photos, and felt "kind of weird" in doing so.

In an exclusive interview with Brian Maass of Denver CBS station KCNC-TV, England also confirmed that abuses worse than those depicted in the photos were carried out at the U.S.-run Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad, but she declined to discuss them.

England, 21, repeatedly insisted that her actions were dictated by "persons in my higher chain of command."

In the photos, England is seen smiling, cigarette in her mouth, as she leans forward and points at the genitals of a naked, hooded Iraqis. Another photo taken at Abu Ghraib shows her holding a leash that encircles the neck of a naked Iraqi man lying on his side.

"I was instructed by persons in higher rank to stand there and hold this leash and look at the camera," she said.

England said the actions depicted in the photos were intended to put psychological pressure on the Iraqi prisoners.

"Well, I mean, they [the photos] were for psy-op reasons," she said "And the reasons worked. I mean, so to us, we were doing our job, which meant we were doing what we were told, and the outcome was what they wanted. They'd come back and they'd look at the pictures, and they'd state, 'Oh, that's a good tactic, keep it up. That's working. This is working. Keep doing it. It's getting what we need.'"

England, an Army reservist from West Virginia who is four months pregnant, is now stationed at Fort Bragg in North Carolina. The interview was taped Tuesday at Fort Bragg.

England is among seven soldiers from the 372nd Military Police Company who face charges for allegedly degrading and humiliating Iraqi prisoners. One soldier, Spc. Jeremy C. Sivits of Hyndman, Pa., will face a court-martial in Baghdad next week.

"To all of us who have been charged, we all agree that we don't feel like we were doing things that we weren't supposed to, because we were told to do them. We think everything was justified, because we were instructed to do this and to do that," England said.

She told KCNC she was looking forward to having her baby and hopefully one day putting the abuse scandal behind her.

[Jalapeno]

"...Karpinski will be charged, I am confident. Taguba more or less called her a liar yesterday

I did not hear the testmony. What did the one General say in regards to the other that lead you to belive this?

[FrankR]

""I was instructed by persons in higher rank to stand there and hold this leash and look at the camera," she said."

I wouldn't matter if a 5-star General told her to do that, she still has the right to refuse an UNLAWFUL ORDER.

This is about a few, adolescent, unsupervised, soldiers having the power to make some weird fantasies come true. Colossally stupid Ms. England - obviously prone to perform lewd acts on camera - seems to have jumped at the chance to perform, and be distributed for all the world to see.

AND ANOTHER THING...what did the Iraqis involved think the Americans were going to do to them if they DIDN't disrobe and perform?

ALSO, what precedent of torture BY Americans did the Iraqis use for an excuse to behead Mr. Pearl...that happened long before this scandal. IF this is such a big disgrace to them, why didn't they refuse to disrobe? After all, the Journalist they killed - Mr. Pearl - refused an anesthetic just before being decapitated...".

These captive Iraqis who were made to strip, well I'll just say if they didn't have anymore backbone than to comply with such a ridiculous request,then they deserved the humiliation. I think we can all the the level of cowardice with these people...when they have you outnumbered, they are vicious animals...but when their a** is on the line, they run up surrender flags to newsmen before the tanks even arrive.

All of this is serious, but it's mostly about Bush-bashing...and that's it. It's a left wing media-manufactured event. Common sense dictates that two beheadings trump one sophmoric prank, that is to anyone with a mentality higher than "sophmore" (high school, that is).

[MineralMan]

"I know it is fashionable to think you would disobey orders like that but realistically anyone who disobeys orders is going to be in a lot of trouble."

Nonsense. I refused a few orders while serving in the USAF, 1965-69. None involved anything like this, of course.

The first time, I was ordered by a Captain to contribute to the United Way after I had refused to voluntarily contribute. I found myself in a Colonel's office, explained the situation. The captain got a reprimand in his jacket.

The second time, I was detailed to observe the counting of coins from the NCO club's slot machines. The NCO in charge of the club was skimming about half the take from the machines. I refused to sign the form verifying the count. I was ordered to do so by the MSGT, then again by a Lieutenant. I refused both times, stating that the count was inaccurate. I was not punished, but the MSGT was court-martialed and spent some time in prison.

Every soldier has the duty, not just the right, to refuse illegal orders. It may cause some temporary inconvenience, but then soldiering is about inconvenience in the first place.

[cyncooper]

Once again, there was testimony about this yesterday. No orders and it was not done as an "interrogation technique".

[ravingnutter]

I don’t believe in psychics.

I am normally a skeptic as well, but there were several times that this particular psychic assisted the authorities and was correct such as in the MD sniper case. What she said intrigued me and got me to thinking...who could be behind this if it was faked to embarrass the President? Anyway, I finally found her website and here is what she stated:

I cannot understand why the public has not picked up this information. The people in the videotape who are doing the Iraqi prisoners wrong --- that is a setup. The authority goes pretty high up but it is a setup to make the president of the United States and to make America look stupid and to be seen with two faces. It is very important for the president to get to the culprit. The man who is behind all that wears a tan uniform and has two stars on his shoulders. He is an individual who hates the American way and wants to see changes in America. He does not have an interest in winning a war. That is definitely not his interest. This man has been paid millions and millions of dollars to do this awful thing.

It doesn't take someone who is really bright to look at these videos and see that they are staged. And everything that was done was staged so that it would look so ridiculous. It is important for the intelligence to get to the bottom of this. They will find that an officer who is very high up will have money put in a Swiss bank. It will not be in his name though; it will be in a woman's name who is connected with him and she is not American. She is not his wife; she is a girlfriend, but this money will be transferred around in years to come. This money was put together by a number of people who got together and planted this little scheme right in the middle of political battles in America. It was meant to make the president look silly.

Guess we'll have to wait to see if she is correct or not. After all, with all the money Soros is throwing around, it IS a plausible scenario.

[monday]

"You have your nerve chastising someone for their comment when you apparently are ill-informed."

Not at all. If you were to call someone a lier, without offering any evidence to back up such a claim, I would "chastise" you as well. It's fine to give your opinion on FR, but if you offer no reasons for your opinion, you have to be able to take the heat as most people will assume you are an idiot.

[FrankR]

Oops...got so involved, forgot to turn off my italics...sorry.

[Paradox]

While I will withold final judgement until all the facts are out, I am inclined to believe her. It explains some of the things that I noticed about this whole thing. Then again, if this is untrue, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised either.

IF this is true, someone higher up is going to pay with his career and reputation, at the very least. Regardless of whether or not this tactic worked, the American public won't stand for it. Someone goes down for this...

[cyncooper]

Speaking of missing online...The day Donald Rumsfeld appeared before the Armed Services Committee, the Washington Post had a complete transcript available that night. If there's one for Taguba's appearance yesterday I haven't found it, yet.

[eleni121]

To equate the horrors of the second world war to these innocuous photos is mad and really disturbing. You have swallowed the propaganda machine out there hook line and sinker! Read senator Inhoffe's remarks from the hearings to get some perspective You really need it!

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1134038/posts

[cyncooper]

I did not hear the testmony. What did the one General say in regards to the other that lead you to belive this?

The testimony was that Karpinski was in charge of the prison but barely visited it. She told the investigators that when she did go to Abu Ghraib, that parts of the prison were "off limits" to her, (I presume the implication is she's saying intelligence had taken over and shut her out). Taguba said he found NO evidence to support her claim and he did not believe that any area of the prison was off limits to her.

[CatoRenasci]

asking for written orders generally stops BS orders.

Sure does. I never had the problem myself while I was on active duty, but a good friend did: his battalion commander gave him a clearly illegal order and threatened him with retaliation if he didn't carry it out. My friend, a captain at the time, then asked for the order in writing. The LTC demurred and my friend told him if there was any OER retaliation he would resign and blow the whole thing wide to the IG. Before the guy could stick it to my friend, the LTC was caught for some other shennanigan and relieved.

Back in 'Nam, another friend, an RA MI type major, actually went so far as to submit his resignation over orders he thought illegal, but the division commander had a fit when he found my friend was getting out and started looking into the situation, figured it out and nailed the right guy instead of my friend. But, he retired as an 0-6, never got a star.

[<1/1,000,000th%]

I will hold my comments until I get through the report here. I guess I just can't believe that this was some sort of party activity to release stress or whatever.

I think posters on this thread should take a look at this report as well.

[ksen]

Don't you think publishing the name and hometown of the soldiers will put their families' lives in danger? What better way for the terrorists to hit back than to show they can get to the relatives of these soldiers?

[TheSpottedOwl]

You know, I can actually believe that. With the way the media and the leftists have jumped on this, I'm smelling a rat. Why aren't these same anti American Americans giving the same coverage time to the assasination of Nick Berg? Because it isn't in THEIR best interests, that's why.

If this is the case, the person who initially ordered this will never be brought to justice. We have a fine selection of scapegoats to hang it on...if in fact what this psychic says is true.

[Semper Vigilantis]

As bad as the photos look, they are nothing compared to what Saddam did, the VC did, the Japanese & Gestapo did...
I personally think that these photos were taken for use as propaganda/psy-warfare against other prisoners. The acts were degrading and shameful to Arabs. I'm no expert, but it seems to me that those people hold personal honor above life itself. To be degraded in such a manner would be worse than being hit with rubber hoses or even death itself. Showing this material to the other prisoners to show what will happen if they do not cooperate may be more effective than all of the threats.
Let's face it - the whole world knows that Americans play fair even when their enemies don't. It's time to take the gloves off and make some examples. Before you nail me, let me say that I am not condoning torture - all I am saying is that what I have seen is degradation, not torture.

[Howlin]

It wasn't even HER duty; she was in the prison wing only to see her boy friend!

[Jalapeno]

The report is missing the statements needed to accurately decide if England is being truthful here or not.

[MaxPlus305]

Damn, get a grip and wipe the froth from your mouth. To refer to WWII to show the absurdity of the "I was just following orders" defense is not equating those solders with Nazis. It's using a crystal clear example to prove a point.

[monday]

"Nonsense. I refused a few orders while serving in the USAF, 1965-69. None involved anything like this, of course. "

Good for you, I guess. Perhaps the military is not the authoritarian organization I thought it was?

The orders you disobeyed had nothing to do with the enemy. Would your superiors have been so forgiving if you had disobeyed an order involving the enemy in a time of war?