LOOK WHO'S CRYING 'ABUSE'

New York Post ^ | 5/11/04 | RALPH PETERS

[kattracks]

May 11, 2004 -- THE events in Abu Ghraib prison shamed America and our military. The mistreatment of prisoners is utterly unacceptable. And we haven't accepted it. As a nation, we've taken responsibility for the tragic actions of a few. Our military has been investigating the misdeeds for months. The initial report was brutally frank. There's no hint of a whitewash. The guilty parties will be called to justice.

[JRandomFreeper]

The author is spot-on with his observations.

/john

[HiTech RedNeck]

There is no Arab country - none - in which prisoners aren't treated immeasurably worse than the victims of the sadists in uniform at Abu Ghraib.

The issue really ain't "torture." A lot of this stuff was less annoying to the recipients than is frat hazing. It's indecency and making the US a party to it.

[Howlin]

kat, we'll never live through this election. :-)

[Gabz]

OMG................

I have to reread this after I've gotten some sleep......what a wake up call.

[Texasforever]

May 11, 2004 -- THE events in Abu Ghraib prison shamed America and our military. The mistreatment of prisoners is utterly unacceptable.

That is a very dangerous assumption. If the "abuse" was for the fun of it then yes it is unacceptable. If the "abuse" was to gain urgent battlefield information then the techniques would take on a very different context.

[Dec31,1999]

Much more quickly than the scars left by institutionalized torture and murder, state oppression, decades of censorship, imprisonment without hope of trial, religious bigotry and ethnic cleansing. That, too, is a lesson of Iraq.

Really good article, except for the question if the detainees in Iraq will get any trial at all. Will they?

[Atlantic Friend]

Beware, that's the easy, tentative road that leads to relative good and relative evil and away from moral clarity.

Plus, do you really think that one obtains information by forming pyramids of naked bodies, or forcing people to simulate homosexual sex ?

[Texasforever]

Plus, do you really think that one obtains information by forming pyramids of naked bodies, or forcing people to simulate homosexual sex ?

Sure it does if it is a culturally sound technique. This is NOT a game. I could care less about humiliation when it comes to battlefield intelligence. Humiliation is not terminal. Shame is a time honored punishment. As I made clear, it is CRIMINAL to use these methods for the enjoyment of those involved. On the other hand it is sound tactics for urgent interrogations of people that were just brought in from a hot battlefield. I personally believe that is not the case here and all involved should and will be prosecuted.

[Atlantic Friend]

I agree with you with the use of shame to break down a prisoners's willpower. It's necessary, and does not constitte torture or abuse in any way. What these pictures show does not make me cringe because of some terrible damage done to the prisoners. It's clear - unless some more grisly pictures appear - that the prisoners were not physically harmed in any way. It makes me cringe because of what it tells us about these guards and their unit - and I think most of the outrage here on FR has everything to do with that feeling of betrayal.

Clearly, as you said, what we see here is not done to obtain urgent, critical information but to satisfy some urgent, crazy lust. These sorry bastards took the time to organize a pyramid of naked people to turn this into a S&M porn photo-op. All these pictures show absolutely no sense of urgency, and no clear purpose except to give the guards some kicks.

What we have here is just very, very stupid people deciding to play very, very sick games with prisoners they don't see as human beings anyway.

[PROUDAMREP]

The members of our government and their duplicity in this caterwauling is not mentioned. They are the ones keeping this at the forefront of the news media strictly for political gain.

Too bad they didn't have pictures of BC in his escapades with Monica. Maybe they wouldn't have defended him so adamantly. Seems written reports are not comprehended. The members of our congress must have pictures before it's a problem.

[kcvl]

It wouldn't surprise me if most of our so-called leaders have done much worse in their own lives. We know for a fact that it wouldn't bother Bill Clinton in the least. He would have been more than willing to join in on the "fun". IIRC, he used Monica for his personal humidor and Ted Kennedy and Chris Dodd are fond of "waitress sandwiches". Their phony outrage is getting old.

[tet68]

Ralph Peters is spot on!

[KC_Conspirator]

Besides this glow-stick rumor, I am generally unimpressed with all these abuse stories.

[OESY]

"LOOK WHO'S CRYING 'ABUSE'": Ralph Peters, indeed.

Peters is practicing personal damage control after writing his talking points for Ted Kennedy and other Democrats in his May 1 column. In his piece, entitled "An American Disaster," he wrote "For those who wish to believe ill of America, the abuse photographs can be conflated...," which Peters proceeds to do, thank you very much Ralph.

Peters, before any investigation was completed, announced that "these crimes demonstrate an utter failure of the chain of command. All the way to the top.... The truth is that this was a systematic failure ...[which] made a mockery of those Americans who have died to bring a better future to Iraq. They shamed every soldier serving today. And every one of us who served in the past." Sorry, Ralph, I served and I don't feel shamed.

Beyond implying that Rumsfeld, his favorite target, and Bush were war criminals, Peters shames himself with over the top hyperbolic rhetoric to get readers to pay attention to his grievances against the Pentagon.

Recall that Peters was the insightful military analyst who proclaimed that both the Afghanistan and Iraq campaigns in their third week were lost in quagmires, just before they turned into stunning victories.

[Just mythoughts]

"The headlines now wounding us will not soon go away. The media, foreign and domestic, will twist every drop of blood from this story of an American misstep. But no matter how much more there is to come, we Americans will admit our errors and fix them. Then we'll move forward, no less determined to do the right thing."


The "ABUSE" done to this nation by the CLINTONS is far more devastating than anything done in that prison. They were devious enough to make sure there were no cameras.

[anoldafvet]

"The members of our congress must have pictures before it's a problem."

That's because, based on some of the legislation they produce, it's obvious that they can't read and must rely on pictures.

[Utah Girl]

Ralph Peters ping, who is spot on as always.