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To: John Lenin
Actually I think freeper 'GreatOne' IS right on with his statement. But what you wrote gets at the root of the problem:

especially with the 20 year olds we have today who grew up on a diet of web porn and violent movies and TV shows.

This incident is likely a huge battle in the culture wars, whether we recognize it right now or not. It is the fruits of libertine moral relativism and the 60's boomer's default 'push the limits/the rules don't apply to us' approach to life. What we have are portions of a generation that grew up floating in a moral vacuum, many increasing separated from any moral/ethical standards. "Don't ask, don't tell", "Who are you to judge", "What's wrong for you is not wrong for me", "Its just about sex", "There's nothing wrong with porn", Howard Stern and a shock culture that by default must keep pushing extremes just to reach simple satisfaction, all contribute to the densisitization.

When people grow up in a culture that encourages rationalizing whatever they want, and ignoring any rules/standards that are inconvenient, it is a much smaller step to crossing the line into real abuse. If S&M is ok among consenting adults, accepted among ones peers, elevated to just another form of entertainment, and interspersed routinely into one's awareness, how much easier does it become to inflicting it on the unwilling? For those for which gay porn has been normalized, the shock of Abu G. is primarily only the lack of consent. For a prison guard from a culture that tells him they'll look the other way and allow him to do 'whatever it takes' to keep order, why would he not carry that ignoring of rules/laws over into prisoner interrogations, especially when adding in the emotion of the situation of dealing with some persons who are actively seeking to destroy your society? How can we expect persons immersed in the segment of American culture that mocks and tears down the norms that encourage self-control to then suddenly exercise the high-degree of self-control required in this situation?

I'm really anticipating the take that Bill Bennett and others like him will have on this incident, and how they place it in the greater context. I don't want to fixate on any one particular detail, but rather on how the 'no rules' and shock culture inevitably leads to such incidents that force us to admit that limits are needed, and are there for a reason. Sooner or later the culture wars(and our even political divide) will be decided, one way or another. If history is our guide, Abu G. may be one of those incidents that forces a societal introspection and correction. What we need to fight for now is that the interpretation and analysis is correct, and not some trumped up short-term emotionalized political goal, that masks and provides the delay of an easy out to pretend that everything will be better without addressing the real problem.

189 posted on 05/08/2004 11:32:47 PM PDT by Diddle E. Squat
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To: Diddle E. Squat
I'm really anticipating the take that Bill Bennett and others like him will have on this incident

Is Bill Bennett laying out any odds? What is the point spread?

193 posted on 05/08/2004 11:43:10 PM PDT by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting www.johnathangaltfilms.com)
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To: Diddle E. Squat
I still have a problem with calling humiliation where you are not physcially hurt, torture. If there was some real torture I want to hear about it and see it but so far what I have seen does not come up to the torture category and that's how it is being portrayed by the media.
196 posted on 05/08/2004 11:53:18 PM PDT by John Lenin
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