Posted on 05/07/2004 11:02:41 PM PDT by saquin
Although it has been quite a few years since I was in the military, I can't imagine it changing so much that such actions would be initiated by anyone below command level. Anyone who shows any signs of individual thought won't make it past boot camp. Their entire training is aimed at excising individual thought and enforcing obedience to orders and they do that job very well. Oh, there may be an occasional soldier who gets through the system, with his individuality still intact, but they are few and far between. The chances that so many would end up in the same place, at the same time is far greater than that of you winning the lottery on your first attempt. There is no doubt in my mind that those soldiers were following orders. I just don't know how far up the ladder it goes.
I don't think that Rumsfeld knew about it or would have condoned it. But I would bet that ultimate responsibility goes high enough up the ladder that when the secret part of the investigation is over and Rumsfeld reads that report, he will recognize the name(s) of the man (or men) who was responsible. That person will probably be quietly forced to retire, but the public will never hear about it and that's all that will happen. That's the way it has always been done. Even when the politicos have no knowledge of the wrongdoing, they want to keep the responsibility as far from themselves as possible, so the scapegoat is almost always a non-com.
In my opinion, Rumsfeld is the only person in the administration, including Dubya, with any real integrity. It would be a shame if Dubya were to fire him, though I have no doubt that he would, if he thought that it would improve his chances of re-election. Even if Rumsfeld were to be fired, the command officer who was ultimately responsible, will probably never be known to the public.
Hack wants his buddy Bubba back as CIC. Pardon me while I puke.
When you show pictures of all the bad things our military has done Iraq and you don't show any of the good things that our military has done in Iraq and you don't show the bad things that have been done to our military in Iraq, then you have not painted an objective picture of what our military is doing in Iraq.
The pictures of this war presented by the media are mostly bad. The work being done by our troops is mostly good.
Please explain in some semblance of reason how the above scenario DOES NOT endanger every one of our troops in Iraq, our objective in Iraq and our country.
If we care about the revenge that has played out against these Iraqi prisoners, then we should care about the revenge factor that may be played out against these six and more importantly all of our troops in Iraq.
The pictures were classified and should not have been leaked.
Other possibility mentioned above is a gay porn ring. I really hadn't thought of that angle.
There was NO reason to publish these photos, since the Army already had investigations well underway and were revamping the system. People were already in custody. The report listed the offenses.
But that wasn't enough for CBS...they had to show the pictures. And in the process, violated the Geneva Convention and made certain that those prisoners in the pictures were humiliated not just before the prison guards but before the entire Arab world.
There are two wrongs here. The first is that of the guards and officers in the prison. They should get the maximum punishment available.
The second wrong is that of the media, who in the process of getting the pictures out in order to damage Bush, have indeed endangered the troops in Iraq, and in fact have given us a setback in the war on terror.
If it is against the Geneva Convention to humiliate prisoners, why is CBS broadcasting the photos. They are, in my opinion, as guilty of war crimes as the guards at the prison.
"The public's right to know", don't you know? (Does that even have to be stated anymore?) Or, to translate it into everyday language - the mob's right and demand to be titillated 24/7!
No, that excuse won't wash. Any REPUTABLE news agency would have checked that out before airing the photos.
Hmmmm, seems like they were doing that already. Or did you miss the reports on the hundreds of brave soldiers that have died since we 'won'? This changes nothing. Islamonuts hate the occupation force no matter what would have been done.
There was NO reason to publish these photos, since the Army already had investigations well underway and were revamping the system. People were already in custody. The report listed the offenses.
In our history, the stories that don't make the media and get to the public tend to be covered over
And in the process, violated the Geneva Convention and made certain that those prisoners in the pictures were humiliated not just before the prison guards but before the entire Arab world.
As if the soldiers didn't violate the Geneva convention in doing it in the first place. Have you even read part II or part III of section I? Practically everything it said not to do, these men and women did. Frankly, I think it's a good thing they're out in the open. Gives the citizens of the respective states a little taste of what these young people have been ingrained from the television media and entertainment divisions of our society.
Of course one couldn't expect anything further reaching to come out of this, say perhaps a responsibility factor on our society for breeding such 'free thinkers' but heck let's blame CBS for throwing it in our face shall we?
The second wrong is that of the media, who in the process of getting the pictures out in order to damage Bush, have indeed endangered the troops in Iraq, and in fact have given us a setback in the war on terror
And this is where you've lost me. Reporting what the youth of this society are doing over there does not threaten them in anyway. Islamics weren't going to love us under any circumstance. Or perhaps you missed the 'popular' US backed newspaper shutting down the other day when the entire staff walked off because of censorship. I want to know this is happening. And from many of the polls out there, the majority of the citizens of the respective states want to know it as well. Frankly, I've already sensed a change in some of the people I work with who served in Desert Storm I compared to older veterans I know
What amazes me is the double standard. Instead of getting upset, 'conservatives' cheer Rummy for standing up in the face of Congressional questioning. I know the era is long gone of expecting our Armed Forces to act a cut above the enemy. Even if they didn't follow the Geneva Convention, our Armed Forces expected themselves to do so. But on this thread, there is cheering when the Armed Forces do stoop to the level of the Islamics. That and lambasting a news organization for telling us they did so with photographs. I don't know what concerns me more. The fact that I see praise for those that would debase a man because they did it to us first or that we shouldn't be told what those who are 'spreading democracy' are doing to accomplish this job.
The rambling WOST continues..
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