Soldier's Family Set in Motion Chain of Events on Disclosure [Hackworth involved in CBS photos]

NY Times ^ | 5/8/04 | James Dao and Eric Lichtblau

[Mo1]

Mr. Lawson sent an e-mail message in March to Mr. Hackworth's Web site and got a call back from an associate there in minutes, he said.

He got a call back within minutes????

[cake_crumb]

"LOL! There's plenty of other ways of making the POW's suffer: Playing old films of Jennine Garafolo's, replaying Shirillary's screaming rants over and over again, playing Barbra Streisand records, making them watch reruns of Rosie O'Donnell's show. There's so much liberal mind-f*cking material out there, who needs to make them get naked and masterbate?"

I must point out also that the prisoners in Gitmo certainly don't have to be "forced" to masturbate in front of women, men OR cameras. They aren't commanded to do it; they just do it...as well as throwing feces at their guards. The pigs enjoy doing it because they don't like being in captivity, just like monkeys and aps in the zoo.

Now I'm gonna go do some heavy vegging. This stuff is really getting to me.

[FreeReign]

Who are the "POWS" in the pictures? Could they not be POWs?

If they're not POW's then why don't they come forward to set the record straight?

[cake_crumb]

Because they're gonna get monetary compensation?

[World'sGoneInsane]

What did the 17 members of Congress do?

Nothing. Until the pictures came out. Then they called a hearing and some blamed Rumsfield and Bush.

[FairOpinion]

"Ivan Frederick was distraught. His son, an Army reservist turned prison guard in Iraq, was under investigation earlier this year for mistreating prisoners, and photographs of the abuse were beginning to circulate among soldiers and military investigators. "


===

And the idiot thought that releasing the pictures to the media is going to help his son?!

[mabelkitty]

England wasn't given orders.
She wasn't even assigned here - she came to visit her soon-t-be-baby's daddy Graner at the prison for hi-jinks.

All her actions are voluntary and of her own doing.

[evad]

ahh..thanks for correcting me.
dave

[TeleStraightShooter]

Even in WW2 which developed some of our best people, there were 70 soldiers hung for rape.

What an irony, The USSR issued orders to use rape as a weapon when they invaded Germany.

[TexKat]

Notice who gave the last picture to Reuters.

A detainee at the Abu Ghraib Prison shows his wounds at the detention facility on the outskirts of Baghdad, Iraq Friday, May 7, 2004. He said that he was earlier wounded during fighting between American forces and insurgents. Controversy continues surrounding the treatment of the prisoners last year, when photos were taken showing abuse by American soldiers. (AP Photo/John Moore)

The bodies of three dead Iraqi prisoners of war lay in the bed of a truck in Baghdad, after they were killed by U.S. MPs in an uprising at Abu Ghraib prison late last year, according to a soldier from the 870th MP (Military Police) unit that supplied this photograph to Reuters. Three U.S. military police who served at Abu Ghraib said on May 6, 2004 that they had witnessed unreported cases of prisoner abuse and that the practice against Iraqis was commonplace.

[FreeReign]

And the idiot thought that releasing the pictures to the media is going to help his son?!

Frederick wanted to turn the blame onto the miltary command. What better way of doing this then by going to the people who hate the military command.

If may even work.

[Quix]

Incredible.

Large bureaucracies are chronically immune to even vital feedback.

I think Zumwalt as CNO did the best of anyone I've heard of in recent times to deal with that problem. And he was thoroughly criticized because of it. But he was the wiser one.

There was a 5 star Army general who was good at it in WWII, can't think of his name right now. Troops loved him, for good reason. He was not puffed up and was skillful at finding out the realities at the lowest levels.

[johnb838]

That Maj. General Geoffrey Miller, the new Deputy Commander of Detainee Operations looks like one bad sob. Reminds me of the nasty dude in the Matrix. Kelly Wright on Fox looks funny with a suntan.

[mass55th]

"I was going by WW2 when we executed (I believe) 70 American soldiers for rape of civilians."

During the Civil War, three members of the 55th Massachusetts (black unit) were executed for allegedly raping a white woman while the unit was stationed in Florida. A drum-head court-martial was conducted and they were hung for their crime. The Court-Martial records at the National Archives are full of extremely interesting cases. There's thousands of them on file there.

[World'sGoneInsane]

MI, CIA?

[TexKat]

I am watching the repeat on C-Span at the present. Rep Heather Wilson lifted a document and asked who signed the order of Nov. 19, 2003 to have the Abu Grahib prison under the authority of MI.

My question is did that alleviate/override Kapinski's authority at that location?

[Quix]

Yes and no.

The military, like many complex, multi-tasked, multi-goaled, multi-motivated organizations and individuals

can be chronically awful

at dishing out very conflicting messages.

Such as . . . Don't get drunk. If you don't get drunk, you're not a man.

And, as Zimbardo's classic prisoner/guard experiment has shown, about 30% of the average population will become extremely authoritarian, gestapo like with merely the instruction to fill the role of a guard over others assigned by lot to fill the role of a prisoner.

Zimbardo noted that if the monsters are 'out there,' it's not so bad. We can gang up on them. But, if [as the Scriptures indicate--with the pollution of 'original sin'], if the monster is within all of us, it's a lot scarier.

From my very distant perspective, my hunch is that officers involved were grappling with how to intimidate and coerce the Iraqi's into compliant helpfulness without wholesale physical abuse and wholesale violation of Geneva conventions etc.

And, as other research has shown, the capacity to rationalize is quite extensive--especially in the face of incremental sliding down moral slippery slopes. The first slight deviation is inconsequential. The next step similarly small and in itself inconsequential. After a dozen such inconsequential steps, horror can be afoot quite readily.

Actually, given all the givens in our culture in our era, I'm rather surprised it wasn't worse sooner.

[Mo1]

I still have a whole lot of posts to still read

But is NYT giving up the names of their sources??

and isn't that suppose to be a no no in the news world?

[nmh]

In any large organization you will have loose cannons but I don't believe that is the majority.

[thatcher]

 As they did during the The Clinton administration; his apologists have effectively colored the dialogue by drowning out the facts in a sea of spin, and they have even been able to change the dynamic of the facts to suit their own diabolical manifesto.

Military institutional policy.

Fact:

1. A young man who saw what was going on was able to report the problem immediately. The military took immediate action.
2. The idiots who were doing this were locked up, the crime was investigated and they are, as we speak on their way to trial.
3. These photos, that we have been seeing, are photos that were evidently stolen from the militaries evidence file to prosecute these cases.
4. There is no wrong doing on the part of the military here, only that of a few individual who were acting as individuals, not doing the military's work.
5. We can not hold other responsible for what another individual chooses to do; especially when the 'others' have done everything that they can do to stop the crime as soon as they knew about it. 
6. Blaming Rumsfeld, is like blaming a police chief for a crime happening in his precinct, after his officers have already picked up the criminal, have him sitting in jail awaiting trial.

When the Democrats fearless leader was caught red handed lying in a court of law, not only as the president of the United States of America, but as a lawyer, (for which he later lost his license to practice) he made the country go through a politicized impeachment process and still would not step down.  When clinton finally left office, he spent the last hours of that time pardoning criminals who had paid him off.

When we bring up example from the clinton administration to demonstrate the democrat's lack of sincerity; to show that they are care nothing about the principles involved; only about the opportunity to bring their hated enemy, ( the hated enemy is the one who does not think emotionally and opportunistically like them). they will say something like 'two wrongs do not make a right ~ nor do more wrongs make anything right. Ironically, President Clinton refused to admit that he committed crimes that he obviously committed (perjury and obstruction of justice).