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Marines Want Their .45s Back
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| April 23, 2004
Posted on 04/23/2004 4:21:45 PM PDT by Cannoneer No. 4
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To: flashbunny
Give the marines a 15 round 10mm and they won't want the .45 or the 9mm. The 10mm is an expert's pistol. Still, their are a considerable number of people who could use it well.
The best policy, in my opinion, is to allow individual troops to procure their own weapon, from a choice of allowed calibers. The US military still uses 9mm,.45, and .38 special, for example. Perhaps we could allow others for Special Forces. Britain had this policy for much of its strongest days, and it worked well. Some countries, such as Columbia, I believe, still follow it.
A pistol is a very personal thing, and having your very own, chosen by you, can give an edge in proficiency and confidence.
To: Cannoneer No. 4
Of course they want their .45s back. Just as the troops who fought the Moros during the Philipine insurection preferred the outdated .45 Colt SAA over the then current issue and more modern DA revolvers in .38 Colt.
22
posted on
04/23/2004 4:42:02 PM PDT
by
Chuckster
(Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoset)
To: Cannoneer No. 4
M1911 .45 Best handgun design ever made, IMO....
23
posted on
04/23/2004 4:42:25 PM PDT
by
Joe Hadenuf
(I failed anger management class, they decided to give me a passing grade anyway)
To: Cannoneer No. 4
Wasn't the .45 first used during the Phillipine insurrection a Hundred years ago? Rather Amazing weapon to last so long and still be effective.
24
posted on
04/23/2004 4:43:49 PM PDT
by
Burkeman1
("I said the government can't help you. I didn't say it couldn't hurt you." Chief Wiggam)
To: 45Auto; archy
I recall the article you posted in 2002 on this problem:
http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/810131/posts
Afghanistan vets criticize M-9 reliability, lethality
Veterans whove used this gun have complained to Washington. Retired Col. David Hackworth, an author and vocal critic of military policy, wrote an open letter to Congress in July (2002) calling for more reliable weapons to be issued to the military.
Hackworth said one Afghanistan veteran wrote him that, I had to pump four rounds into an al-Qaeda who was coming at me before he dropped."
Our issue M-9 pistol (Beretta M92F) is proving itself unreliable, another wrote to Hackworth. They are constantly breaking. To make matters worse, the 9 mm hardball round we use is a joke. It is categorically ineffective as a fight stopper, even at close range."
Some soldiers are coping by packing heftier .45-caliber pistols, similar to those used by generations of soldiers and Marines since before World War II. Such .45s remain in the U.S. military inventory, but the origin of those used in Afghanistan military issue or privately owned remains unclear.
Whats not unclear to several of those using the older weapon is its value. It saved my life, one Army Ranger told Hackworth. I hit a number of enemy 30-40 yards away who went down immediately from my .45 rounds. With a Beretta, I wouldnt have made it because of the far-too-light 9 mm bullet, play in the action and its limited range.
To: Spok
I'd like to see a .44 mag autloader although I am not to keen on auto's, much more confident with my hawg leg .44 revolver.
26
posted on
04/23/2004 4:46:50 PM PDT
by
eastforker
(The color of justice is green,just ask Johny Cochran!)
To: Cannoneer No. 4
I drew too slow; you got me...
To: Army Air Corps
On the other hand, there are some really nice updates of the M1911 that have much finer machining and tolerances. So, I wouldn't be wedded to the actual m1911, but I sure would want a .45. I don't understand the justification that the M9 has a bigger magazine which makes it friendlier for soldiers who aren't "sharpshooters." Sheesh. If a guy can't hit anything with a .45 he ought to be using an automatic weapon instead of a pistol.
To: GrandEagle
Would you happen to know why a Springfield Mil-Spec Light Weight would fail to fire the last round?
It would also fail to lock back after firing the last round.
Finally got rid of it.
Replaced it with a 4" bbl nickel plated M1917 Smith.
29
posted on
04/23/2004 4:48:41 PM PDT
by
Cannoneer No. 4
(I've lost turret power; I have my nods and my .50. Hooah. I will stay until relieved. White 2 out.)
To: JackRyanCIA
".45 is a man stopper." I heard the term "Man Stopper" used for the Colt .45 Automatiic when I was a kid. I had a BB gun replica of one then. Weren't they also referred to as "The Hardballer"??
30
posted on
04/23/2004 4:50:13 PM PDT
by
KriegerGeist
("Only one life to live and soon tis past, and only what was done for Jesus Christ will last")
To: Cannoneer No. 4
I don't think I would have wanted to go crawling around inside an Afgani cave with anything less than a .45 'Grease Gun' or a shotgun.
31
posted on
04/23/2004 4:51:19 PM PDT
by
Chewbacca
(I think I will stay single. Getting married is just so 'gay'.)
To: Batrachian
Heck, if they want stopping power in pistols, how about .357 revolvers.
Nah - the 44 Mag. The round knocks down one or two bad guys, the sound takes out a few more.
32
posted on
04/23/2004 4:54:10 PM PDT
by
R. Scott
(Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
To: robertpaulsen
If I do two quick shots at the indoor range with an M1911, the second round goes in the ceiling.
Ever shoot an M1911 gangsta style -- sideways? Just about break your wrist, and God knows where the round went.
I never had a problem with recoil, and had two years on a combat pistol team.
Ever shoot an M1911 gangsta style -- sideways? Why would anyone ever want to? It only works in the movies.
33
posted on
04/23/2004 4:56:43 PM PDT
by
R. Scott
(Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
To: Burkeman1
34
posted on
04/23/2004 4:56:46 PM PDT
by
Cannoneer No. 4
(I've lost turret power; I have my nods and my .50. Hooah. I will stay until relieved. White 2 out.)
To: Batrachian
35
posted on
04/23/2004 4:57:33 PM PDT
by
SVTCobra03
(You can never have enough friends, horsepower or ammunition.)
To: Spok
Now a lot of cops are taught the Spray and Pray technique.
36
posted on
04/23/2004 4:58:03 PM PDT
by
R. Scott
(Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
To: Batrachian
I hate to light up the "defense acquisition system new guy" light, but a contract for $1.9M does NOT mean that you can get the old calculator out and divide by 1,100 pistols!
The contract would include everything from the writing of the requirements, building a detailed specification for the design, competing the different designs, selecting the winner, testing the new weapon in operational tests, logistic support packages, training, documents, etc. If we are going for a design that takes new ammo into the system, then we have to buy ammo for everybody.
That's what the $1.9 Mil is for, Big Guy...
37
posted on
04/23/2004 4:58:56 PM PDT
by
USMCVet
To: Batrachian
FYI -
Contract values include the total with all options. The contract may have option lines for additional lots of pistols and accessories beyond the initial lot.
To: Cannoneer No. 4
If the Marines like the 45s over the 9mm, I say let them have their 45s. I prefer 45s over the 9mm myself. The 45s have a longer range, to reach out and touch somebody, like an Islamic terrorist.
To: Cannoneer No. 4
When the switch was made I was told that it was to standardize ammo with NATO - and allow female MPs to use the same sidearm as men.
40
posted on
04/23/2004 5:00:00 PM PDT
by
R. Scott
(Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
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