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Kerry Bronze Star Certificate signature questioned. Investigation warranted?
Kerry's PDF Military Files on his Website ^
| 4-15-04
| me
Posted on 04/22/2004 10:49:24 AM PDT by moondoggie
How come the paperwork on Kerry's Bronze Star Award is signed by John Lehman, Sec. of the Navy????
In addition, the date Lehman (supposedly) signed it is not on the document.
Did Kerry not get the award when Chaffee was Secretary of the Navy? If not, why not?
Did Kerry get the award 15 years late?
Or is the paperwork a "sham" and somebody made a big booboo?
I'll post the document as soon as I find it again. Maybe somebody here has it bookmarked? And, if there's already been a thread on this that I missed....please direct me to the proper thread.
Thanks!
TOPICS: Extended News; Government; Politics/Elections; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: bronzestar; johnlehman; kerry; militaryrecord
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To: Las Vegas Dave
I've been trying to get though this thread with my morning coffee. It would be a shame if it turns out Jf'nK lied about being a hero.
To: xzins; Ragtime Cowgirl; Alamo-Girl; MeekOneGOP; Happy2BMe; PhilDragoo; potlatch; ntnychik; Mia T; ..
Medals could be bought by anyone thru MO military supply until the late 1990's I believe.
I recall that decorations were on display for sale at the PX's at Jackson and Benning.
Then some in Congress jumped on it after some books on phony vets and decorations owned and/or wore by civilians or military that never served in combat.
Such as Kerry's VVAW buddy Al Hubbard and many others in the "Winter Soldier" scam which never produced one signature from anyone for the DOD investigation.
422
posted on
04/23/2004 1:24:03 AM PDT
by
devolve
(................... ...........................Hello from Sunny South Florida!..................)
To: devolve
I just retired 2 years ago, and I could have walked into any clothing store and purchased just about any medal...they were on the rack. I'm fairly certain the MOH was not present.
I never really paid attention to the presence/absence of the Silver Star since I hadn't earned one. However, in a large military community, I wouldn't be surprised to find a few folks who had, and retirees who had, so its presence in clothing sales wouldn't have surprised me.
Let me check the online PX/clothing sales to see if they can be purchased via the net. I'll get back with you.
423
posted on
04/23/2004 1:31:33 AM PDT
by
xzins
(Retired Army and Proud of It!)
To: xzins
To: eastforker
Amen!
425
posted on
04/23/2004 1:43:35 AM PDT
by
torchthemummy
(Florida 2000: There Would Have Been No 5-4 Without A 7-2)
To: cookcounty
426
posted on
04/23/2004 1:47:36 AM PDT
by
XBob
To: devolve
I just checked and included the silver star pictures from the PX webpage. I can buy the ribbon (class A wear) and the miniature medal for formal uniform (blues, dress/mess) wear. I don't see anyplace that I can replace the actual medal. I'm fairly sure there's a way to do that, but it's probably through DA with proof offered. One would have to submit the orders approving the award, and then I'll bet a replacement would be right on its way.
Which would be an interesting question: Did Kerry ever resubmit for his medals? There might be a record. Did he lie about not throwing his own away, and is instead lying about how he still has them?
427
posted on
04/23/2004 2:01:37 AM PDT
by
xzins
(Retired Army and Proud of It!)
To: boxerblues
see #427
428
posted on
04/23/2004 2:03:11 AM PDT
by
xzins
(Retired Army and Proud of It!)
To: xzins
We've been able to get the actual large size medals, you have to look around I know military .com has them as does legion.org has links to order them.
To: Oldeconomybuyer
Wow. You are right.
430
posted on
04/23/2004 3:47:29 AM PDT
by
mabelkitty
(John Kerry is the sad clown of life.)
To: stylin19a
I got the dates of Kerry's service on the Gridley from his evaluation repors, which re the best source.
431
posted on
04/23/2004 3:55:39 AM PDT
by
kabar
To: mtntop3
Why/how is a Silver Star certificate/citation changed in this manner? As stated earlier on this thread, most of us, and especially veterans, have assumed that a military award/citation was written up for one time and one time only by a single authority. Are we mistaken? We are not dealing here with casual words but with carefully selected words that have meaning and ramifications.
The way the system worked when I was on active duty was that the award was submitted on a prescribed form and went through an approval process. The nominator usually wrote up a synopsis of the award (citation), which could fit on one page and be placed on a single page for display and framing purposes. The final approving authority could edit the citation, not usual, for various reasons. However, the citation should bear some resemblance to the actual write up. Hyland could have edited Zumwalt's citation, but I have no explanation as to why Lehman made the slight change to Hyland's. The Bronze Star nomination remained unchanged.
While we can quibble about the significance of the changes, I think we are missing the forrest for the trees. The big question is what are the circumstances surrounding Lehman signing these citations and did Kerry request replacement medals after stating that he never threw his away. Kerry has some 'splaining to do.
432
posted on
04/23/2004 4:11:55 AM PDT
by
kabar
To: ASA Vet
You hit that nail on the head except OBL is alive and being held in the undisclosed shed in my undisclosed backyard until the time is right.
This picture is for illustration only. This is not Conspiracy Guy, this is not the undisclosed shed or the undisclosed part of the undisclosed backyard.
433
posted on
04/23/2004 4:16:33 AM PDT
by
Conspiracy Guy
(Believe nothing you hear and half of what you see.)
To: kaehurowing
and now Kerry is on the wrong boat in January. Someone else had boat 94 in January during battle that Kerry claims to have been involved in.
To: dalebert
435
posted on
04/23/2004 4:56:58 AM PDT
by
Timeout
(Dems and MediaCrats: Stuck in a 9/10 world.)
To: Timeout
Thanks for posting this.I am trying to find out if Kerry claimed(scratch) injury on the 29th.
To: kabar
Reasons assuredly exist for the two additional write-ups for Kerry's Silver Star - each write-up more laudatory and subtly changing the orginal in both tone and message. The public should be told the reasons. They may be entirely benign. To directly, or indirectly, bring about - or condone the bringing about of - these changes for enhancement of one's award/citation certificate would not only be unaccceptable: it would be scandalous. (To view the three versions, see Post #172). This issue is much larger than a possible, genuine medal throw-away: he would state on the latter, in reply, that he simply regretted throwing them away.
437
posted on
04/23/2004 5:28:00 AM PDT
by
mtntop3
("Those who must know before they believe will never come to full knowledge.")
To: blau993
Now aint it a terrible thing that a staffers thumb accidentally rubbed real hard and often across the signatures and other pertinent data before scanning?
438
posted on
04/23/2004 5:33:14 AM PDT
by
R. Scott
(Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
To: mtntop3
I don't have a problem with the diffence between Zumwalt's citation and Hyland's. It could be that Zumwalt's approval was not final, so it went up the chain to Hyland who changed it for the final award. If you notice, Zumwalt's citation is on two pages. It is interesting that Kerry does not include the Zumwalt citation on his website.
439
posted on
04/23/2004 5:37:20 AM PDT
by
kabar
To: Bommer
Most official signatures on orders and other large volume documents are made either with a stamp or a automated signature machine.
440
posted on
04/23/2004 5:37:34 AM PDT
by
R. Scott
(Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
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