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To: Ahban
For Darwinism to be true, you must have new species arise through the injection of NEW information.

We do from the Carassius Gibelio to the Carassius auratus, The Gibel Carp to the Goldfish

                                 

There has been plenty of "New" information that has evolved in the Goldfish that are not found in the original Gibel Carp, So it's a gain not a loss. There are scores if not hundreds of new structures, organs, body shapes, tails shapes and numbers, types of scales, colors, tolerances, etc. Most of which are the result of multiple genes (i.e. the bubble eye in the bottom center picture takes 3 separate genes just for the sacs to form) that were gained separately/independently.    

The information must improve the fitness of the organism for their environment,

It did, Try raising a carp in a fishbowl and see how long it last

and the new information must arise at a rate that explains the biological diversity of Earth and the fossil record.

Goldfish arose ~1100 years ago, So even if we take an extremely unlikely low estimate and say the Goldfish only differentiate from the carp by only 0.0005% (Their different chromosome number guarantees it's way higher) using simple math that would mean that if the genetics of a species can change 0.0005% in 1100 years then in 4.5 billion years the genetics of an organism can change by 2,250,000% which way more than the diversity of all life on Earth. 

The first two conditions seem at least theoretically sound but have not been shown and the last has not come close to being met.

Yes it has in the Goldfish .

101 posted on 04/23/2004 5:19:04 PM PDT by qam1 (Tommy Thompson is a Fat-tubby, Fascist)
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To: qam1
Sorry qam1. Here is what an aquarium's site says about the goldfish-carp link....

"Goldfish are the domesticated Asiatic subspecies of Carassius auratus, the gibel carp, a species that naturally shows a wide range of morphological variation when raised in different environments. In its native China it inhabits rivers, streams, ponds, lakes and ditches, living in running, still and even stagnant water from 10°C to 32°C, growing to about 30 cm in length and 2.5 kg in weight within 2-3 years and living for about 10 years. It is a delicious food fish! It crosses readily with any ornamental goldfish, producing viable offspring."

These things are the same species, and it is a species that has always displayed lots of morphological differences.
108 posted on 04/23/2004 9:14:55 PM PDT by Ahban
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