Hunley Hoopla Ignores the other side of the story

The State (Columbia, SC) ^ | 11 April 2004 | John Monk

[Rebeleye]

Nowhere will it be mentioned that if the eight-man Hunley crew had been on the victorious...4 million black people would have continued to be slaves.

[Natural Law]

This article looks and smells like the sludge and muck that filled the Hunley. Without attesting to the merits of the actions of either side the war was over the ability of one group of states to impose changes in the agreed upon form of government on another group of states.

I have no doubt that if the war had not been fought the sides would have peacefully reconciled or peacefully coexisted. I also have no doubts that slavery would have eventually ceased for economic if not for moral reasons in both Northern and Southern states.

Lastly, let's not forget that the slave holding population in the south was a small percentage of the overall population. The majority of the men who fought for the south were not slave holders and, regardless of the assigned causes, fought bravely for thier country.

[billbears]

they had left the Union and become a slave owning state, they would have descended into a disasterous South Africa sort of situation, on a collision course with the 20th Century

Probably would have kept us out of WWI and perhaps averted the causes for WWII. But oh yes, so much better the invasion forces came down here, burned our lands and cities, killed innocent civilians, and 'taught' us a lesson, right?

[WhiskeyPapa]

bump

[Salamander]

And the choir said "Amen".....;)

Here's hoping that the MD liberals never read all the verses to their state song.

I suppose I shouldn't worry overmuch about that, anyway.

Not too long ago a "local" man [recent transplant from the DC 'burbs] wrote a letter to the editor and placed Maryland geographically in the "north".

Mason & Dixon wept.

Near me is a stone fort where Federal troops were garrisoned to "police" the hillbillys for the duration.
The hard feelings over that are but one of the "traditions" our generations have passed down through the years.
The recent surge of 'Republicanism' up in the mountains is a miracle, in itself.
It involved nothing less than an entire reversal of political polarity and an awful lot of atavistic pride had to be swallowed.

I had to laugh about the "timely secession" of VA.
How many times did they have to burn/lay siege to Winchester before the Virginians finally got mad enough?.....:))

[Salamander]

The best thing that ever happened to the South Colonies was losing the Civil Revolutionary War and staying in the British Union. If they had left the British Union and become a slave owning free state country, they would have descended into a disasterous South Africa sort of situation, on a collision course with the 20th Century.

Tyranny is tyranny, no matter the "justification".

[stand watie]

GOOD POINT!

protection of chattel slavery was VERY important to the 5-6% of southerners who actually owned slaves.

for the other 94-95%, they couldn't have cared less if ANYONE owned slaves AND they certainly wouldn't have volunteered to lose their lives for slavery!

fwiw, the average dixie HERO had GROSS ASSETS of LESS THAN $25.00.

MY ancestor, William James (Little Thunder) Freeman, late of the 4th MO Partisan Rangers, entered the PACSA (according to his enlistment document)with the following personal assets:

1. a used black felt hat

2.a pair of homemade cotton trousers

3.2 homespun shirts

4.a double barreled 14 guage shotgun AND

5. a "good,young red mule".

that was probably his TOTAL personal assets.

MANY dixie soldiers,sailors & marines had LESS than that upon enlistment!

free dixie,sw

[Salamander]

Hey....I'll send ya $5 for giving a lot of grief to the Anglos who "oppressed" my Celtic kin.....;)

[stand watie]

i call it what it IS: DIShonest & DIShonorable!

free the southland,sw

[Colt .45]

"Nowhere will it be mentioned that if the eight-man Hunley crew had been on the victorious...4 million black people would have continued to be slaves."

Assumption is the Mother of all F*ck-ups! And this author assumes that what he is saying would be true. It jsut shows what a PC ass HE IS!

Falsum etiam est verum quod constituit superior.
Translation - False becomes true when the boss decides it is.

[PAR35]

(More than 40 percent of white S.C. families owned slaves, according to Edgar.)

Meaning 60%, or well more than half, did not. And let's not forget the black slaveowners. BET recently did a feature on one.

[WhiskeyPapa]

protection of chattel slavery was VERY important to the 5-6% of southerners who actually owned slaves.

You've seen the record and you know that slave ownership devolved on 50% of whites in MS, LA and SC, and on @ 1/3 of whites in the other so-called seceded states.

And yet you lie.

Walt

[Gianni]

The world is a conspiracy against the brave

Bump!

[Gianni]

And he achieved it the second he imposed martial law in Maryland just as they were about to vote to secede.

Just finished Freedom Under Lincoln by Dean Sprague. He basically jumps between Missouri and Maryland and discusses the heavy-handed federal treatment, arbitrary arrests, ballot tampering, etc. The book's a bit of an oddity, as it seems to have a pro-union temper, but is very detailed about the excesses of the administration.

[Gianni]

4.a double barreled 14 guage shotgun AND

Now there's a collector's piece!

[Salamander]

We wouldn't have really mattered if the capitol hadn't been built in our midst, as it were.

I reckon Mr Abe didn't care overmuch for being "surrounded".....:)

[Smokin' Joe]

Never underestimate the difficulties the Union would have had attempting to blockade the Chesapeake. With all the runs and guts in the Tidewater, there would have been no shortage of places to unload cargo. A lot of smuggling went on anyway, but this would have permitted major shipping.

Go far enough up the Delaware River, and you are landing troops close enough to be a threat to New York.

Sure could have changed the character of the war. Abe was surrounded anyway. Had the MD governor not been in cahoots (The militia was told to keep their arms at the armories, that they would be called out in the event of invasion--didn't happen--the arms were captured en masse) chances are that some of the invaders could have been properly repelled before reinforcements arrived.

A substantial number (including some of my ancestors) kept their arms handy, made it to Virginia, and fought the yankees.

[Salamander]

"(The militia was told to keep their arms at the armories, that they would be called out in the event of invasion--didn't happen--the arms were captured en masse)"

Well, now.
That militia certainly was "well regulated".

[Ah'll jis' keep muh shootin' arns on the wall, thanks].....;)

[WhiskeyPapa]

The majority of the men who fought for the south were not slave holders and, regardless of the assigned causes, fought bravely for thier country.

Unfortunatey for your interpretation, the rebel armies largely melted away through desertion.

Walt

[WhiskeyPapa]

(More than 40 percent of white S.C. families owned slaves, according to Edgar.)

Meaning 60%, or well more than half, did not. And let's not forget the black slaveowners. BET recently did a feature on one.

Slavery was clearly the cause of the rebellion.

Soon to be CSA congressman Lawrence Keitt, speaking in the South Carolina secession convention, said, "Our people have come to this on the question of slavery. I am willing, in that address to rest it upon that question. I think it is the great central point from which we are now proceeding, and I am not willing to divert the public attention from it."

Alfred P. Aldrich, South Carolina legislator from Barnwell: "If the Republican party with its platform of principles, the main feature of which is the abolition of slavery and, therefore, the destruction of the South, carries the country at the next Presidential election, shall we remain in the Union, or form a separate Confederacy? This is the great, grave issue. It is not who shall be President, it is not which party shall rule -- it is a question of political and social existence."

Walt

[CurlyBill]

The war started on April 12, 1861. The Emancipation Proclaimation was not issued by Lincoln until January 1, 1863. That document was issued as propoganda to incite discourse from within the South to make it easier for the north to have it's heavy handed way. It was a junk document, in that it only applied to the Southern states, which had already, by their Constitutional right, seceeded, removing them from Lincoln's jurisdiction. The document did not address the northern states in which slavery was quite common.

This was also a move by the north to keep Europe from entering the fray. It was purely political. I challenge anyone to read some of the quotes of Union General William T. Sherman on race and tell me the Union was without racism. They far exceed any of the quotes that I have read coming from Robert E. Lee or Stonewall Jackson.