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To: wonders
Patriarch Pavle has not sought to be a sister church to the RC.

My point is hypocrisy.

46 posted on 04/13/2004 8:38:01 AM PDT by MarMema
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To: MarMema
Its not hypocrisy you should worry about its your own stupidity!
49 posted on 04/13/2004 8:55:45 AM PDT by Wraith (He who defends everything, defends nothing. Napoleon.)
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To: wonders
Thanks for your honesty about Croatia. You are the kind of RC I could be a sister to.

"ZBIGNIEW BRZEZINSKI TO ACCOMPANY POPE TO UKRAINE RRN -
by Dmitry Safonov - strana.ru, 2 May 2001 -

Ivan Rudnitsky, executive director of the organizing committee for planning the pope's visit to Lvov, reported that up to 200 honored guests will come to the city. Among others, an invitation was sent to Zbigniew Brzezinski, an American political scientist who is an honorary citizen of Lvov. Brzezinski, an American of Polish descent, was born in 1928. He occupied the office of national security advisor to American President Jimmy Carter from 1977 to 1981. At the present time he is a consultant with the Center for Strategic and International Studies and a professor of American foreign policy in the School of Modern International Studies in Johns Hopkins University in Washington, DC. His disciple, Madeline Albright, is the current (sic) American secretary of state. He is the author of the books "Out of Control," "The Grand Failure," "Game Plan," "Power and Principle," and "The Great Chess Board." On Brzezinski's initiative the USA supplied the Afghan Mujahadin the most modern weapons, financed by billionaire Usama ben Laden.

Brzezinski is the author of the doctrine according to which Ukraine, in contrast to Russia, is viewed as a part of western civilization. In Brzezinski's doctrine Ukraine is assigned the role of buffer between East and West. In this regard, according to Brzezinski's view, Ukraine should be taken under the patronage of the West and after 2010 there should begin a process of drawing Ukraine into the European and Euro-Atlantic structures. As strana.ru analysts have noted, the "Brzezinski plan" entails in particular the formation of a permanent guided conflict between Russia and Ukraine. In connection with this the creation of a religious conflict between Russian and Ukraine and the conduct of actions directed against the Ukrainian Orthodox church of the Moscow patriarchate are integral parts of this plan. Brzezinski is known as a russophobe and hater of the Orthodox church. The pope's visit plays no small role in the "Brzezinski plan."

After the part of the "Brzezinski plan" that included the smooth transfer of power from President Kuchma to ex- premier Yushchenko failed, the pope's visit became especially important for Brzezinski's group. Most likely, Brzezinski will accept this invitation and will come to Ukraine in order to join personally in the implementation of his plan. We recall that the final dates for the visit to Ukraine by Pope John Paul II were set for 23-27 June of this year. Several representatives of the leadership of Ukraine showed special interest in the pope's arrival. Now former vice premier Nikolai Zhulinsky has noted that "the pope's visit is intended to achieve mutual understanding and reconciliation and a consciousness of the need for a revival of relations between the Orthodox church and the Roman Catholic church." However, with which Orthodox church will the Roman pope establish relations?

The letter from members of the Holy Synod of the Ukrainian Orthodox church says that "not a single one of the clergy of our church will take part in the schedule of the visit." Some representatives of the power structures of Ukraine understand "Orthodox church" to mean the schismatic groups of Filaret Denisenko (UPTsKP) and the autocephalists (UAPTs). Recently this false patriarch organized around himself a group of politically bankrupt activists from the so-called national democratic camp, who constantly make a big fuss over the bugbear of the "Moscow threat" and who have agreed to use any means to achieve their goals. One such activist is Igor Yukhnovsky who expressed his opinion that in 2001 "a united local church will be achieved in Ukraine. . . In the long view I also see the unification of the Orthodox church with the Greek Catholic church."

The pope's visit to Ukraine cannot be seen as anything other than a provocation and interference in the internal affairs of the Orthodox church with the goal of driving canonical Orthodoxy out of Ukraine. The pope is trying to use his authority to support pro-Catholic and nationalistic forces of Ukraine in their struggle to draw Ukraine finally into the orbit of the influence of the West. The pope's visit is supposed to facilitate as well the achievement of Uniatism--Greek Catholicism--which so far is located only in western Ukraine. The pope's visit naturally lies within the course of the policy that has been conducted by the Vatican for centuries--the expansion of Catholicism to the East. But despite all that, Ukraine has remained in its majority Orthodox. Nevertheless, several representatives of the power structures obviously are prepared to betray Ukraine to the Vatican if only it can be removed "further from Moscow." Ivan Rudnitsky also reported that the largest foreign delegations are expected from Poland, around 200,000, and from Lithuania, around 10,000. Nearly fifty official persons will arrive in Lvov on invitation from the head of the city. In addition, official delegations and honored guests will arrive on invitation of the chairman of the provincial administration and hierarchs of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic and Roman Catholic churches.

Among honored guests will be the mayors of fraternal and partner cities, municipal heads of provincial centers of western Ukraine, and honorary citizens of Lvov. An invitation was sent especially to the head of the "Congress of Ukrainian Nationalists," Slava Stetsko. The pope's visit, in the intentions of its public and hidden organizers, is supposed to turn into a demonstration of the efforts of all anti-Orthodox, pro-western, and anti-Russian forces in Ukraine who are striving to sever the ages-old ties of Ukraine with Russia and the fraternal relations of the two Orthodox nations by means of the destruction of canonical Orthodoxy in Ukraine, which they call "Muscovite."

Additionally and far more recently, the pope has been considering adding a Patriarch in Ukraine. Rather then choose the city where this would be most logical, he has chosen a city which is largely Orthodox and historically significant, Kiev. From what I have read, Kasper is frantically trying to stop it.

At the time, when the pope took Ziggy along for his visit, NATO was in the process of deciding to accept Ukraine as a member. Just a few weeks after this, they did. Now that is just not a coincidence. No way. Ziggy has long drooled over the idea of Ukraine turning on Russia and being a stepping stone to destroy Russia. He has written about the use of Nato for just this purpose. What is the pope doing playing these games abroad, and about this time the priesthood here was falling apart in a major way, if you recall. Pedophiles coming out from every corner, but the pope was busy doing politics.

The pope made public statements about his visit to Ukraine being for healing. In Lvov his pre-arrival contingent was busy making arrangements to raze an old Orthodox church in the middle of town so the pope would have room to speak there to crowds which would come. Healing ways indeed.

Some of the other things I dislike about this pope....
vatican

More on keeping what is not yours and using it

I can find it if you insist. I had a link to an interview with the pope in his apt by a Catholic group. They were shown the Russian icon and talked to the pope about his keeping of it from Russia. The pope said to the interviewer, who published it in the writing, something very close to this - "Russia is what really matters in the end". I wish I could recall the exact words, but it had all the inklings of a conspiracy thing about "getting Russia". As if Russia were some property on sale or on a shelf. When I have time I will try to find it. If you read it I think you will see what I mean. This pope is a major game-player and I don't like him.

From this information I hope you can see that for me, personally, this pope says one thing but acts in ways which are obviously and purposefully going to estrange us. I have in the past posted commentary from some Italians, upper level clergy in Italy, who said this themselves.

This pope is not a peacemaker nor is he honest about his intentions. I am anxiously awaiting the next and hoping for an Italian. This one has a great deal to answer to God for. I wish him the best.

50 posted on 04/13/2004 9:41:12 AM PDT by MarMema
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To: MarMema
My point is hypocrisy.

Point taken. I see what you mean.

57 posted on 04/13/2004 12:05:50 PM PDT by wonders (Preach the Gospel Always. And when necessary use words. -- St. Francis of Assisi)
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