Driving Down Unknown Roads: The Feminization Of America

Fred On Everything ^ | 032904 | Fred Reed

[SauronOfMordor]

Matrichal(sp?) societies are based on enforced equality. That is why when women get in control of an industry or disipline or profession they immeadiately banish hirearchy and form a circle. (everyone has an equal voice)

Not quite. A circle is a womens hierarchy which can be just as rigid as a male hierarchy. Rather than having decisions being made by whoever has the best track-record, decisions are made by whoever has the temperment to argue, and argue, and argue, until everyone else gives in. This gives women a big advantage. (I work in an environment where I can observe this close up)

[Think free or die]

"I have two grandsons who are being wussified by their schools to the point that I subvert the school authority as much as possible."

We're guilty of doing this with our sons as well. We take them to military re-enactments,teach them about family members who have served in the military, keep plastic swords in the house, and provide them with toy soldiers and an ample supply of Captain Underpants books. Lately they've been enjoying watching the Horatio Hornblower series. They tune out the occasional mushy stuff in order to enjoy the sea battles. Our boys' friends have learned that our back yard has a stream, trees, pond, and lots of mud and rocks. Many boys have had the opportunity to get good and dirty here!

I still struggle with the balance between protecting our sons and challenging them. I guess that's the nature of motherhood. I'm glad I'm not raising them alone.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you for the ping!

Interesting: The very fields that his vaunted "women" control are those that we conservatives feel are contributing the MOST to the decline in our (perviouisly admired!) American morals, values, and freedom.

Truly, I hope that someday the majority of women will become confident, independent thinkers. I will know that day has come when young girls quit starving themselves to look like Barbie, when plastic surgeons change specialities by the droves, when abortion clinics go bankrupt, when feminist organization close down for lack of interest and when at least half of all women vote conservative. When that day comes, IMHO, it will be followed by a renewal of faith, moral values, family loyalty and patriotism.

[driftless]

I don't agree with Reed on everything, but he does always have an interesting column. I happen to agree with most of this one including the female desire for security and making everyone feel good about themselves whether they deserve to feel good about themselves or not.

In my state of Wisconsin they keep adding divisions to the high-school sports teams so, as in the words of the female member of WISA, the org that runs the scholastic athletic programs, "more students can have a positive state tournament experience". This woman, and people like her, saw how happy many of the people whose teams went to the state tournament were, so of course! (the lightbulb went on in their heads), "why not make it possible for many more students to be happy by going to a state tourney" they thought to themselves. I believe these people are also responsible for the self-esteem movement which believes in rewarding people just for participating regardless of how they perform either athletically or scholastically. There is no thought given to the idea that the only things worth experiencing pride over are the ones achieved through hard work and sacrifice.

[SauronOfMordor]

There is no thought given to the idea that the only things worth experiencing pride over are the ones achieved through hard work and sacrifice.

They can't understand. Women are more motivated by relationships and being close. Achievement and status are primarily male drives.

It's got a lot to do with biology: in the past, high-status males got their pick of the women, and could have lots of mates. Actually, it's still true today, with wealthy guys being able to have a succession of "trophy wives", and older-but-rich celebrities marrying young women (Billy Joel recently married a 22-year-old -- he's older than his new father-in-law)

Biologicly, physical beauty is the main advantage of females in the competition for the most desirable mates, while for men it's status, power, and wealth. Hence the tendency for boys to get into competitive games from childhood

[cyborg]

I've read some of Reed's essays and find some of his opinions good and others questionable. However, I would not be intellectually honest if I didn't say he had some legitimate issues with how feminism has affected this society. I'm just saying that given what I've read in marriage and divorce threads here, and hearing a lot of men's experiences with females. Christina Hoff Summers was right about old fashioned feminism and this new breed of man haters.

[guitfiddlist]

A circle is a womens hierarchy which can be just as rigid as a male hierarchy. Rather than having decisions being made by whoever has the best track-record, decisions are made by whoever has the temperment to argue, and argue, and argue, until everyone else gives in. This gives women a big advantage. (I work in an environment where I can observe this close up)

I also had the chance to see this up close. I was at IBM's Defense marketing division (FSD) in LA when the whole defense market collapsed, after the Berlin Wall did. We were all told to find jobs in other divisions, or take our severances and walk. As an option to stay in LA, I evaluated working with a technical writing group that shared our building, all women - about 15 total. Sounds like a frat boy's dream? Nope.

My first interesting experience was participating in naming that particular group. After a very tedious and roundabout discussion, they settled on Technical Writers And Trainers. They were all very irritated with me when I spoke up and said "I don't...think that would be good." "Why NOT?!", they chorused. "Think of the acronym", I said, to a much quieter chorus of "Oh."(I am not making this up)

Moving on, I noticed this very rigid consensus process, where the merit of the ideas submitted had less importance than the WAY they were presented. When I suggested an idea, it was initially well received and adopted. Later on, when the same subject came back up (for no apparent reason - nothing ever seemed to be settled), it was not well received - and they went on to discuss the whole subject all over again.

I decided I couldn't deal with this, quit IBM, and became a beach bum playing schlock-rock in Manhattan Beach. This is all very anecdotal, and not necessarily proving of anything, but it was an eye-opener for me, to see the world of difference between male-dominated versus female-dominated decision-making.

[Woahhs]

I'm a responsible man raised by a single mom. What of it? The problem? Men have been shirking their responsibilities. The solution? Men should stop shirking their responsibilities. I thought that my example said that fairly clearly. Maybe it didn't.

I'd hardly call a prescription based entirely on the various adaptations and repackagings of a Josh McDowell sermon from the 1970s, responsible. I have great respect for Christianity and those that practice it, but not when those practitioners subordinate the manifestly obvious to quasi-Scriptural formulae on par with the "name it, and claim it" nostrums of the recent past.

It is, of course, your choice to entertain "magical thinking" fairytales that men bear responsibility for our erroding moral position. But in the face of an identifiable "feminine" mindset where men have no more political "pull" than women, and demonstrably fewer mechanisms for enforcing their wishes, I'd say you are guilty of the same myopia Ezekiel preached against when he gave a word against those who blamed their troubles on "the sins of the father's being visited on the children."

Women in this country are free moral agents, not the subordinates of past social hierarchies. As such, blamining men for our current society is like blaming horses for our current traffic problems.

[BSunday]

C.S. Lewis: "Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies."

Rush: "Those who know what's best for us, must rise and save us from ourselves" - from the song Witch Hunt

[TalBlack]

Not quite. A circle is a womens hierarchy which can be just as rigid as a male hierarchy. Rather than having decisions being made by whoever has the best track-record, decisions are made by whoever has the temperment to argue, and argue, and argue, until everyone else gives in. This gives women a big advantage. (I work in an environment where I can observe this close up)


I wrote martrichal "societies". These exist and have existed. They may be observed. It has nothing to do with the rigidity of their roles, which if they weren't rigid could hardly be definable.

[SauronOfMordor]

Moving on, I noticed this very rigid consensus process, where the merit of the ideas submitted had less importance than the WAY they were presented. When I suggested an idea, it was initially well received and adopted. Later on, when the same subject came back up (for no apparent reason - nothing ever seemed to be settled), it was not well received - and they went on to discuss the whole subject all over again.

Where I work, I frequently find myself the lone guy in a meeting with several women. One book that I've found very useful in getting me to understand how women interact with each other is "In the Company of Women" by Pat Heim, Susan, Ph.D. Murphy, Susan K. Golant

Women, especially women in groups, seem to like consensus-based solutions, where everybody has a chance to talk about what she thinks about it, and especially how she feels about it. Solutions where somebody says "Lets do A", and the women can't come up with a rational objection to A, may be adopted without visible dissent, but there will be some disgruntlement with the process. If the women manage to do a lot of back and forth and discussion until nobody can remember who originally brought A up, they're much happier.

One woman has this thing about "unilateral decision-making" -- she fins it most objectionable when I just do things without talking it over first with the group.

[Jaysun]

Women in this country are free moral agents, not the subordinates of past social hierarchies. As such, blamining men for our current society is like blaming horses for our current traffic problems.

I know at least one woman who is not a "free moral agent". In marriage, as in most other relationships, there is a leader. Perhaps I do entertain "magical thinking" - but it's no accident that my wife isn't among those that fill the NOW meetings, attend the Million Mom March, "protest" in the streets, or who works on her "career". She's got a family to raise.

Society, political pull, "mechanisms for enforcing their wishes"...all of these things have been the responsibility of men - and they are for men to uphold or irresponsibly neglect - not for women to choose as men sit limply by and shrug their shoulders.

I have great respect for Christianity and those that practice it, but not when those practitioners subordinate the manifestly obvious to quasi-Scriptural formulae on par with the "name it, and claim it" nostrums of the recent past.

That's where we part ideas. To not subordinate to "quasi-Scriptural formulae" is to be a damned fake. It's served me well and will continue to. I'm not sure why you felt such a need to rant at me for what you obviously think is absurd - but that's all I've to say about this subject.

[Law]

Interesting article bump.

[Law]

I miss a great deal of what you miss. But the welfare state was created by men for the most part. Maybe women influenced them but men did it.

Women supplied the vote margin for the Dem men who built the welfare state.

[guitfiddlist]

Women, especially women in groups, seem to like consensus-based solutions, where everybody has a chance to talk about what she thinks about it, and especially how she feels about it. Solutions where somebody says "Lets do A", and the women can't come up with a rational objection to A,

I honestly do appreciate your points. But the whole thing is kind of academic, really, because it ain't going to last. And when the whole structure collapses, they will see a ridiculously brutal structure we will all hate.

[SauronOfMordor]

I honestly do appreciate your points. But the whole thing is kind of academic, really, because it ain't going to last. And when the whole structure collapses, they will see a ridiculously brutal structure we will all hate

It's already started. Where I work, the practice is increasingly for us guys to figure things out among ourselves, and work around the women as much as possible