[eskywalter]

I have been the lone voice of reason in this class all semester. Thanks again for helping me build a convincing argument.

[TruthShallSetYouFree]

Many thanks to anyone who can provide some direction in finding current data

You want current data? Which way does the current flow bewtween Cuba and Miami? What percentage of the Cuban population is trying to get to Miami, via boat, raft, or defection? What percentage of the US population is trying to move to Cuba? Ask your professor those questions?

[Kozak]

Check out PJ O'Rourke's book, "Eating the Rich". There is an entire chapter on Cuba (titled I think " Bad Socialism" ) and what a sh#thole it has become under Castro. I remember some references to malnutrition in the chapter, pointing out they have scurvy ( vitamin c deficiency ) in a country where citrus plants grow as weeds. And it may point you to primary sources. Remember any statistics from the Cuban government are automatically lies.

[Asclepius]

Dude. If you want a contemporary example of genuine hunger in a closed society you want North Korea. Cuba suffers from chronic food shortages yes, but not malnutrition (see the CIA factbook on Cuba availabe at ). People who enjoy tropical climates in this hemisphere tend to have enough to eat.

[TruthShallSetYouFree]

Here's a nugget: Since losing its special trading relationship with the former Soviet Union, Cuba's food imports have decreased. As a result, Cuba's average daily food intake has fallen by more than 500 calories per person over the last 20 years, according to the FAO report.

Here's the source

[nuconvert]

http://www.wfp.org/country_brief/indexcountry.asp?country=192

Have you tried just typing into Google "Hunger in Cuba" ?

[Kozak]

You also may want to point out that almost every famine in the 20th century, Ukraine 30's, China late 50's, Bangaldesh 70's, Biafra 70's, Ethiopia 80's was the result of application of Communist agricultural policies.

[mean lunch lady]

My personal knowledge is limited but I have heard of people who still smuggle money and things like soap, etc to their relatives who are living in Castro's Paradise.
When I was in high school long ago, I took fifth year Spanish and there were 3 guys from Cuba in our class who were there to learn English. It was very interesting to hear how they felt about the whole situation. They said that the Cuban people had actually helped Castro to overthrow Batista because the people bought his (Castro's) whole act and they believed they would be better off under the new regime. Whoops!

[El Gran Salseron]

If you are interested enough then FReepmail me. I have email addresses of those who have lived under Castro but escaped and a few who are STILL living under Castro. I can give to you their email addresses but only AFTER I get their permission to give their email addys to you.

They have told me, for example, that hotel workers in the tourist hotels are not allowed to eat the food in the hotel restaurants. The stories are horrendous. Female doctors are hooking on the streets of Havana at night because the pay for doctors is so low, just as an example. My wife's Ph. D. cousin lives in a rundown one-room apartment. Her husband is also a Ph. D. They have to share the one-room apartment.

I have photographs of decaying, delapidated buildings in downtown Havana. They have never been painted or no upkeep on the buildings whatsoever since 1959.....stucco falling off of buildings, bricks falling on the street, etc.

Of course, it's the USA's fault, according to Castro.

[Uncle Miltie]

See the post two posts later than yours, and you will have your answer.

"the only famines that occurred since the 1960s were the result of wars or politically oppressive governments, such as in North Korea today."

[Polybius]

My college books tout Cuba as a model of self-sufficiency.

Before Castro took over power, Cuba and Argentina had the highest per capita income in Latin America. Now, Cuba is a few notches above Haiti.

If you want to see successful and self-sufficient Cubans, go to Miami.

Here is a Canadian newspaper article written by a Canadian that does not marvel, as do Leftist college professors, if a Cuban in Cuba manages to have a life a notch above the poorest people on the planet.

*************************

THE TORONTO SUN , 1997

Column by Matthew Fisher

WHERE TIME STANDS STILL

Cuba in appearance hasn't changed much in the last 50 years. Beyond the fabulous beaches, the people of Cuba eke out a living housed in rundown buildings and are transported in rusted vintage cars from the '50's , bikes and horse buggies. Visitors to the Caribbean think it's quaint. However, Toronto SUN columnist Matthew Fisher warns Canadians not to be fooled by a conniving communist government that holds a firm grip over Cuba.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

VARADERO,Cuba -- Joyous,azure skies. Warm, turquoise waters. Coconut palms. A silky, coral beach that stretches forever.

This is Foreign Affairs Minister Lloyd Axworthy's Cuba, Fidel Castro's Cuba. The island is prettier than the Florida Keys.

It's a tropical Shangri-La.

More than 155,000 Canadians visited Cuba in 1996, a 10% jump on the year before. More Canucks than ever are expected to vacation here in 1997.

Havana, Santiago de Cuba and Guadalavaca have their fans, but most visitors from Canada stay on this lush peninsula, 130 km east of Havana and 120 km south of Key West, Fla.

An armada of charter jets makes the three-hour hops everyweekend from Terminal 2 at Toronto's Pearson Airport to Varadero. Other flights arrive directly from Montreal and Ottawa and several points west.

Who cam blame the snowbirds for coming?

The weather is divine. The locals are exceedingly friendly. The quantity and quality ofthe food is overwhelming. (Mona's aside here: THAT is definitely an exaggeration... for tourists, that is.... Cuba has the worst food in the Caribbean....)... okay, back to Mr. Fisher...

The entertainment laid on nightly at every Varadero hotel is exuberant, if not refined. The hotels themselves are good, if occasionally in need of a fresh coat of paint.

Best of all, when compared with most of its Caribbean rivals, a winter vacation in Cuba is a fantastic bargain. A week in the sun - flight, food, lodging -- can be had for less than $900 Canadian. In places such as Jamaica or Barbados it can cost double that or more.

There is another advantage to a Cuban holiday. Because the US Government prevents its citizens from travelling here, there are very few Yanks for Canadian tourists to compete with. Yet American cultural comforts such as HBO and CINEMAX, even the Cartoon Network for the kiddies, are available in most hotels. thanks to satellite dishes which pirate American television signals from the sky.

Coca-Cola, like much else, beats the American trade embargo by coming in via Latin America.

Most Canadians rave about Varadero and Cuba. So much fun for so little money.

Dazed by the sun, few visitors think to ask their host any probing questions about their lives and ambitions. Dazzled by the sand and the sea, very few Canadians notice the Cuban secret police lurk everywhere to make sure that such questions, if asked, are not truthfully answered.

In Hawaii, men and women bearing flower necklaces meet most jets from the mainland. In Barbados, school kids shout cheerful hellos and often sing a little song of welcome.

The greeting in Cuba is provided by crack troops from the feared Interior Ministry who position themselves at the bottom of the aircraft stairs. These grim men are not there to welcome anyone. Their job is to count bodies and ensure that no Cubans can escape by sneaking on board a foreign-bound airplane.

PARANOIA CONTINUES

The Soviet paranoia continues in the terminal, where immigration booths are an exact copy of those used in Moscow and Xray machines and their minders closely scrutinize every passenger and every piece of luggage. Mirrors are strategically placed behind where every tourist must stand awaiting judgment in immigration booths. This is so unsmiling border guards can see if the visitor is wearing a wig or some other disguise. Another part of their sinister routine is to go through a KBG-taught routine of looking three times at the passport photo of the usually grey-haired grandmother who has come from Canada armed with nothing but goodwill and a purse full of American dollars to help Cuba's sickly economy.

If the granny passes the passport test, she does not receive a nice souvenir stamp clearly indicating she has been to Cuba. If she searches long enough she will discover that a little code has been stamped to the back page of her travel papers.

Life is more complicated if a Canadian intends to stay with a friend in Cuba. The visitor must first provide the consulate in Toronto with the complete name and address of this person, pay $91 and wait 10 days while the person to be visited is checked out by the local authorities.

It's more complicated yet if a Canadian wants to invite a Cuban to Canada. The invitation must be "legalized by the consulate." There is a $196 free and a 10 day wait while Cuban officials investigate the invitee.

AN UNREAL WORLD

Once free of the interior ministry and the airport, Canadians enter an unreal world. Guides bombard them with happy talk about Cuba's literacy rate, its free medicine, its free schools. Kids in nice school uniforms complete the picture by grinning obligingly for visitors.

To the uninquisitive tourist, Cuba looks and sounds like a land of plenty. But what would Canadians say if Ottawa obliged them to make due with their one tube of toothpaste every two months for a family of four, as Havana does? Or that a school teacher in prosperous-looking Varadero receives a salary of 140 pesos or $7.90 US a month, not enough, as one teacher bitterly told me, to buy a glove.

Most snowbirds have no idea that those who pamper them in luxury hotels don't get anything like a fair share of the tens of millions of dollars the snowbirds spend. Like the average Cuban, those who work in the tourism industry earn more than $15 a month. Nor have any workers eaten anything like the extravagant buffet meals which Canadians devour without a second thought daily.

Despite their low wages, hotel workers are the luckiest and the most envied people in Cuba. They get hard currency tips, a chance to talk with exotir foreigners and, perhaps, most important of all, to eat from the same kitchens as the tourists.

UNAWARE

Snowbirds return home blissfully unaware that Cubans can only buy eggs once or twice a year, that staples such as salt, coffee and sugar are strictly rationed, that almost no one has tasted Coca-Cola since it takes several days to earn enough money to buy one, and that shops which sell non-rationed goods of any kind for pesos are empty.

Whatever the Cuban dictatorship's vile rhetoric about the US, the American greenback is kind. Even if Canada is Cuba's great friend and the US is an evil empire, no one in the tourism industry wants anything to do with Canadian money.

This is because only US dollars are accepted in the relatively well-stocked, state-controlled stores where those few lucky Cubans with access to hard currency are forced to shop once their meagre rations are exhausted.

Canadians cannot be blind to this because it surrounds them everywhere in Varadero, but few seem uncomfortable with the fact that those who wait on them and clearn their rooms and toilets must queue every dawn and dusk South-African apartheid style, for cramped bus and truck journeys to their distant, dreary, electricity-starved homes.

Canadians staying in Varadero are so naive and untraveled that few notice police prevent any Cubans who don't live or work on the 20km long peninsula to cross the bridge across a canal which divides it from the mainland. Nor do they seem to realize that to avoid what Communists call "social contamination" cops in the small resort town constantly harass residents demanding their documents. Those who aren't supposed to be there are arrested or expelled.

But Varadero is as good as Cuba gets. Many towns, such as Cardenas, are awful, faded places reek of open sewage. Mangy, half-starving dogs compete for space with threadbare kids so poor that they play baseball with skinless balls and bats fashioned from branches.

Except for scores of clapped out second-hand American designed buses, once used in Quebec, more transport in Cardenas as the 20th century comes to a close is provided by horse-drawn carts or battered Fords and Chevys which predate Castro's marvelous revolution 37 years ago.

It's the same sad story in Havana. The once fabulous waterfront is a tumbledown mess. The only color on many of the walls are the hollow slogans of the Communist party.

Che Guevara is god, and "now, more than ever, Socialism is invincible."

As in Varadero, security types are much in evidence. Plain-clothes cops routinely infiltrate tourist groups in shops and museums to eavesdrop and prevent Cubans from getting in any political discussions.

But strangely, they do nothing to prevent flocks of teenage prostitutes from offering themselves to male visitors.

CRIMINALS UNTOUCHED

Nor do they appear interested in stopping crime. Of the 30 or so folks from Canada that I was with for a week, a woman had her purse ripped from her arm and a little girl had her goggles and snorkeling snitched. My camera disappeared.

If asked, and no secret police are near by, most Cubans are eager to unburden themselves about their miserable lives.

After helping point out several spies hovering among several unsuspecting Canucks in Haana, a guide said she was required to spout nonsense about Cuba's supposed achievements and say nothing about the harsh reality.

What to do? If she didn't, she would lose her job or worse.

Of the dozens of Cubans I spoke with as I travelled in tour groups and by rent-a-car, everyone acknowledged that life had become much worse since massive Soviet subsidies were withdrawn by Boris Yeltsin's Russian government.

People are fed up. They are desperate.

But they are terrified to step out of line because police checks have been dramatically stepped up as more and more tourists arrive from Canada and European countries.

Several Cubans insisted that unauthorized contacts with tourists could result in severe penalties. After two warning letters, Cubans who continued to fraternize with foreigners could get two years in jail.

For Canadians who love the sun and who aren't curious abut this strange, oppressive little island, Cuba is a gilded cage.

For Cubans, the invisible bars are made with steel.

[Vigilantcitizen]

My college books tout Cuba as a model of self-sufficiency.

If it weren't for the sad fact that this BS was printed in an American college textbook, I'd laugh my a$$ off at the absurdity of such a comment.

Cuba is a model of self-sufficiency of a tyrant, not it's people.

[rrrod]

will have a first hand report from a couple returning from cuba in about 2 weeks

[the Real fifi]

There is an Indian economist whose name I cannot recall who has studied the issue and concluded that in modern times there has never been a famine in a society which has a free press and a viable two party system. His work is excellent.

[the Real fifi]

Here is the name of the economist--he recently won the Nobel prize--(AP) Amartya Sen, an Indian expert on poverty and hunger who teaches at Britain's Trinity College in Cambridge, won the Nobel Economics Prize today.

He was awarded the prestigious prize "for his contributions to welfare economics," which have helped in the understanding of the economic mechanisms underlying famines and poverty, the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences said.

Sen, 64, has studied the Bangladesh famine of 1974 and other catastrophes in India, Bangladesh and the countries of the Sahara. Sen (whose first name is pronounced Ah-MAR-tya) joined Trinity College this year after teaching at Harvard University, among other institutions.

Sen, who has taught both economics and philosophy, "has restored an ethical dimension to the discussion of vital economic problems," the citation said.

[dfwgator]

My wife's cousin took their honeymoon in Sandals in Cuba, and visited some relatives there. She took some videos, and what struck out at me was how emaciated and sickly most of the people there looked. People in their 40's looked closer to being in their 60's. And I mean everyone there looked like that in the video.

[nw_arizona_granny]

If you will go to Google.com and check the groups there, you will find the Cuba group and it had a conversation in it a month or so ago.

There is a definite food shortage among the working class, it seems that by the time they reach the commie/state store the food is sold out.

As I recall there is rationing of the food, maybe it was 3 eggs per month.

We talked about it in the Threat Matrix thread.

[Smocker]

You have to read Spanish, tons of news stories on the whole subject

http://www.cubanet.org/

[Luis Gonzalez]

OK, let's start with some raw data. It's old, but things have not gotten any better:

LATIN AMERICA:
PER CAPITA FOOD CONSUMPTION
(CALORIES PER DAY)
	LATEST
	DATA
	1954-57		1995
MEXICO	2420		3135
ARGENTINA	3100		3110
BRAZIL	2540		2834
URUGUAY	2960		2826
CHILE	2330		2769
COLOMBIA	2050		2758
PARAGUAY	2690		2560
VENEZUELA	1960		2442
ECUADOR	2130		2436
HONDURAS	2260		2359
CUBA	2730	(A)	2291

[Luis Gonzalez]

The per capita figures are a bit missleading insofar as they divide food equally among all the people. Not the case in any society, and most certainly not the case in current Cuban society, where the elite Communist Party members are not subject to rationing like the rest of the population.

[Luis Gonzalez]

Do some digging around this site.