Hunger in a closed society: Cuba

[eskywalter]

I am doing a research paper on hunger and I am attempting to compare and contrast hunger in a "closed" society versus a free market economy. I have chosen Cuba for my case study, but am having difficulty locating statistical data on the topic. Many thanks to anyone who can provide some direction in finding current data on hunger in Cuba. I am also interested in overall quality of life issues in this society.

My college books tout Cuba as a model of self-sufficiency. I of course am taking a contrarian view and propose to show how hunger is less of a problem in open, free market societies.

Thank you in advance for guiding me in the right direction.

[mean lunch lady]

Re: For Cubans the bars are made of steel.
I remember vacationing in the Keys as a teenager and when the folks tried to watch the news at night, you could only see (and hear) the parts that Castro wanted you to - the rest of it was all jammed and the noise was horrible. I wonder if it's any different now? Or is the jamming just more sophisticated?

[nopardons]

You might want to add your 2 cents to this Luis.

[rrrod]

will have a first hand report from a couple returning from cuba in about 2 weeks

[radiohead]

Maybe those in the know on this thread can help me out. I understand Cuba has lost much income since the fall of the Soviet Union. What I don't understand is why it is in the dire economic straits it is in.

Is the US the only country that has an embargo against it? Couldn't Europeans, who don't mind spending their money in communist countries, come for vacations, thus adding to the economy?

These questions are probably put very simply and miss all the nuances of the situation, but I don't understand how Cuba has so little money coming in.

Any enlightenment would be appreciated and I apologize for my ignorance on the topic.

Also, in the academic circles I run in, there are frequent requests for items to be sent to Cuba (I imagine thru Canada). What do Cubans think of this? On one hand, I would like to help professionals who are having a hard time doing their jobs, but if the real purpose of this aid is to support the regime, obviously I don't want to donate.

[the Real fifi]

There is an Indian economist whose name I cannot recall who has studied the issue and concluded that in modern times there has never been a famine in a society which has a free press and a viable two party system. His work is excellent.

[the Real fifi]

Here is the name of the economist--he recently won the Nobel prize--(AP) Amartya Sen, an Indian expert on poverty and hunger who teaches at Britain's Trinity College in Cambridge, won the Nobel Economics Prize today.

He was awarded the prestigious prize "for his contributions to welfare economics," which have helped in the understanding of the economic mechanisms underlying famines and poverty, the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences said.

Sen, 64, has studied the Bangladesh famine of 1974 and other catastrophes in India, Bangladesh and the countries of the Sahara. Sen (whose first name is pronounced Ah-MAR-tya) joined Trinity College this year after teaching at Harvard University, among other institutions.

Sen, who has taught both economics and philosophy, "has restored an ethical dimension to the discussion of vital economic problems," the citation said.

[Agnes Heep]

Another good one was by Jackov Smirnov ...

Not to get sidetracked, but I think his name was Yakov Smirnov. Jackov Smirnov is something completely different.

[fourdeuce82d]

Hunger in Cuba" ?

Good idea- but mostly it turns up articles about "hunger" strikes.

eskywalter needs to be a little more agressive in his googling before he asks for help..."Malnutrition +in Cuba" brings up a lot more hits.

[dfwgator]

My wife's cousin took their honeymoon in Sandals in Cuba, and visited some relatives there. She took some videos, and what struck out at me was how emaciated and sickly most of the people there looked. People in their 40's looked closer to being in their 60's. And I mean everyone there looked like that in the video.

[Polybius]

Maybe those in the know on this thread can help me out. I understand Cuba has lost much income since the fall of the Soviet Union. What I don't understand is why it is in the dire economic straits it is in. Is the US the only country that has an embargo against it? Couldn't Europeans, who don't mind spending their money in communist countries, come for vacations, thus adding to the economy?

Cuba can trade with every country on Earth except for the U.S. If Castro had any economy worth the name, he could buy anything he wanted from Canada, the European Union, Japan, China, Korea, Latin America, etc., etc.

Europeans and Canadians do go to Cuba in droves. However, having an economy that only brings in money from tourism won't get you very far unless you have a very small population.

These questions are probably put very simply and miss all the nuances of the situation, but I don't understand how Cuba has so little money coming in. Any enlightenment would be appreciated and I apologize for my ignorance on the topic.

Let's take two of the economic powerhouses in the World: Germany and South Korea. Before the fall of the Berlin Wall, West Germany had the most robust economy in Europe while East Germany was an economic basket case. Today, South Korea is one of the economic tigers of Asia while the people of North Korea are literally starving to death.

Communism is not a government for the benefit of the proletariat. Communism is simply the modern-day version of the fuedalism of the Middle Ages. The King is the Communist Supreme Ruler (Castro, Kim Jong-Il) and the feudal nobility is the Communist Party elite. Between them, they own all the property and means of production and by force of arms they maintain total control over the serfs (everybody else) who toil for the benefit of the King and the noble class.

Since, no matter how hard or how little the serfs toil, the noble class keeps them in poverty, there is no incentive to work hard and produce more. Since all private businesses are outlawed, the economy consists only of what Government bureaucrats dream up and will allow. Poverty and stagnation are the inevitable resuilts.

In the meantime, all my cousins and I who came to the U.S. from Cuba in 1960 with nothing but the clothes in our suitcases and our parents are now all owners of our own businesses and we are all multi-millionaires and so are some of my cousin's kids who have also started their own businesses.

Also, in the academic circles I run in, there are frequent requests for items to be sent to Cuba (I imagine thru Canada). What do Cubans think of this? On one hand, I would like to help professionals who are having a hard time doing their jobs, but if the real purpose of this aid is to support the regime, obviously I don't want to donate.

If you send a donation "to Cuba", dollars to doughnuts it will end up enriching the Communist Party elite.

Don't send donations "to Cuba". Send donations directly to a specific and deserving Cuban in Cuba.

In other words, be like Robin Hood and give the money directly to the poor instead of giving money to the Sheriff of Nottingham based on his promise that money given to him will help the serfs.

[nw_arizona_granny]

If you will go to Google.com and check the groups there, you will find the Cuba group and it had a conversation in it a month or so ago.

There is a definite food shortage among the working class, it seems that by the time they reach the commie/state store the food is sold out.

As I recall there is rationing of the food, maybe it was 3 eggs per month.

We talked about it in the Threat Matrix thread.

[Smocker]

You have to read Spanish, tons of news stories on the whole subject

http://www.cubanet.org/

[nuconvert]

Right.
In a dictatorship, the money goes to the dictator, not the people.

[Luis Gonzalez]

OK, let's start with some raw data. It's old, but things have not gotten any better:

LATIN AMERICA:
PER CAPITA FOOD CONSUMPTION
(CALORIES PER DAY)
	LATEST
	DATA
	1954-57		1995
MEXICO	2420		3135
ARGENTINA	3100		3110
BRAZIL	2540		2834
URUGUAY	2960		2826
CHILE	2330		2769
COLOMBIA	2050		2758
PARAGUAY	2690		2560
VENEZUELA	1960		2442
ECUADOR	2130		2436
HONDURAS	2260		2359
CUBA	2730	(A)	2291

[Luis Gonzalez]

The per capita figures are a bit missleading insofar as they divide food equally among all the people. Not the case in any society, and most certainly not the case in current Cuban society, where the elite Communist Party members are not subject to rationing like the rest of the population.

[Luis Gonzalez]

Thanks for the heads-up.

[Luis Gonzalez]

Do some digging around this site.

[Smocker]

Cuba net said calories were around 1800 a day, up from 1600. worse yet in prisons. this was in an article on Santiago.

[radiohead]

Thanks for the information, especially about donations to Cuba.

Other island nations seem to be able to make money from tourism, but obviously, where communism exerts control, it doesn't matter what kind of revenue the country brings in, it never gets to 'the people.'

What scares me is finding a sort of fervor for communist Cuba among black intellectuals. I can't tell you how many people I've met who think Cuba is a paradise compared to being black in the US. Of course, no one I've met has ever been...

[El Gran Salseron]

I saw the movie when it first came out and have seen the Buena Vista Social Club live, in person twice. Once at Jones Hall in Houston and once in Austin at the "Austin City Limits." They play good music. However, it should be noted that regardless of their talent they are all hard-line communists. The actual members never see a dime of the money they have made. It all goes into Castro's coffers. Their only "take" is the luxurious lifestyle they lead while on the road. I suppose Castro figures that is payment enough.

However, I find it disturbing that after Ry Cooder made them world famous and very much in demand then the very first thing they did is to kick him out of the band.

I am in almost daily contact with people who are still in Cuba. They are limited in what they can say because absolutely all email is monitored but they hint at the disaster that the whole island is. The whole island is dying a very slow, painful death.

But you are correct. The entire island, not just Havana, is in total disrepair.

Oh, and BTW, yes, I do speak, read and write Spanish but not totally fluently. I do have to occasionally ask my wife questions about vocab, tense, etc. She fled Cuba in 1959. It was either that or death because her family had ties to the Batiste regime. Her mom actually worked in his gov't as his education minister or in charge of the free lunch program in schools.....something like that. My wife's story alone gives me chills. When I think about the millions of lives Castro has ruined.....