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To: PatrickHenry
This is, in truth, the only way it can be.

I've never met a person who understood the implications of infinity.

It is why I absolutely despise Stephen Hawkings, with his, "we can't speculate about anything before the big bang because nothing existed before then." Yeah, right. Then by what natural laws did anything go Bang?

It is all the same question. What I call, "What went Bang, or, What created God?" The two un-answerable questions.

Entropy, shmentropy, in the course of eternity, infinity, who knows what can happen? Eventually, everything. To someone who has seen eternity these questions are stupid.

CSNY - We have all been here before, We have all been here before . . .
11 posted on 03/28/2004 5:37:03 AM PST by LogicWings
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To: LogicWings
It is why I absolutely despise Stephen Hawkings, with his, "we can't speculate about anything before the big bang because nothing existed before then." Yeah, right. Then by what natural laws did anything go Bang?

I thought it was the Pope who told Hawkings that it was permissible to study the Big Bang as far back as the moment of creation but not before. That's what I recall hearing Hawking say in a documentary years ago.

22 posted on 03/28/2004 6:11:51 AM PST by LoneRangerMassachusetts
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To: LogicWings
If there is just Science, and not God, then we have only cause and effect.

This necessarily means determinism; i.e., every current action, down to those of the smallest subatomic particles, was predetermined 16 billion years ago.

Emotions are just predetermined chemical reactions. There is no free will.

I find this as difficult to accept as idea of God. What a quagmire.

23 posted on 03/28/2004 6:13:06 AM PST by stinkypew
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To: LogicWings
"It is why I absolutely despise Stephen Hawkings"

Interestingly, it is always the invincibly ignorant who do not even know the correct spelling of the name of the scientist they "despise."

Lyndon LaRouche once wrote an hilarious "paper" full of mathematical howlers and mumbo-jumbo entitled, "Why I Must Attack Albert Einstein".

For you, it's a must read.

--Boris

38 posted on 03/28/2004 7:30:51 AM PST by boris (The deadliest Weapon of Mass Destruction in History is a Leftist With a Word Processor)
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To: LogicWings
What created God

If you ask about Zeus, he has a genealogy. And the Greeks also held some kind of fate (anagke) as prior and fundamental to the Olympian hierarchy. And the Ionians philosophers, in search of this fundamental substrate, suggested material substrates such as water. One of them suggested infinity (apeiron). In all of these, a stopping point is found. Everything and all configurations are a function of that. Also for Christianity, the question "what created God" is answered by their divine understanding of infinity--no eternal regress.

We should remember that there are kinds of infinity. The eternal recurrence that animistic religions held is different than a fundamental infinity that is anterior to that. Sometimes a duality is a function of a monistic feature behind it.

So a good starting point on this problem is to distinguish kinds of infinity. An eternal cyclical recurrence of oppositive forces must be a different kind of infinity than what gives rise to them.

Perhaps one kind of question must be asked whenever we posit a most fundamental infinity. Is it intelligent and personal as we are?

53 posted on 03/28/2004 11:21:11 AM PST by cornelis
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To: LogicWings
The new cyclic model removes a major stumbling block common to existing theories of the Universe - namely, that physics can't explain what came before the Big Bang.

I once signed up for Astronomy 101. It was my first class in the morning of the first day of my venture into "higher education."

The instructor/professor (whatever) launched into pontificating about the "Big Bang". He droned on and on for about 45 minutes, then asked the class if they had any questions. I was the first to stand up, and I asked; "What was there before the 'Big Bang'"?

He gave me this "look". A sort of "How DARE you question the Big Bang Theory!" (And he didn't answer my question; in fact, he said nothing, just gave me "the look".)

A few hours later that day, during lunch, I dropped the class. I didn't want to spend one more minute of my time "learning" from the goose-steping Astrono-Nazi.

65 posted on 03/28/2004 1:47:34 PM PST by handk (The moon belongs to America, and anxiously awaits our Astro-Men. Will you be among them?)
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To: LogicWings
"Yeah, right. Then by what natural laws did anything go Bang?"

According the widely accepted inflationary model of the Big Bang, the Higg's inflaton field getting stuck on the energy plateau for 10^-35 seconds created an enormous negative pressure approximately 10^100 times that of all gravity of all mass. Negative pressure is the mechanism for which gravity can be repulsive (true!). This theory has been extremely successful in describing the pattern in the cosmic microwave background, which is why most physicists accept it.

Of course, what created the Higg's field and why did it find that energy plateau? I'd say God did it.
86 posted on 03/29/2004 6:48:44 AM PST by Flightdeck (Death is only a horizon)
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