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To: LogicWings
If there is just Science, and not God, then we have only cause and effect.

This necessarily means determinism; i.e., every current action, down to those of the smallest subatomic particles, was predetermined 16 billion years ago.

Emotions are just predetermined chemical reactions. There is no free will.

I find this as difficult to accept as idea of God. What a quagmire.

23 posted on 03/28/2004 6:13:06 AM PST by stinkypew
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To: stinkypew
If there is just Science, and not God, then we have only cause and effect.

With science you can only have cause and effect and no way to explain the uncaused first cause. That is where God comes in.

46 posted on 03/28/2004 9:47:07 AM PST by MosesKnows
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To: stinkypew
If there is just Science, and not God, then we have only cause and effect.

How do you know THAT? This presupposes a knowledge that you cannot have based upon your next premise. . .

This necessarily means determinism; i.e., every current action, down to those of the smallest subatomic particles, was predetermined 16 billion years ago.

You cannot know that there is "determinism" because this presupposes a knowledge you cannot have if you are utterly predetermined. You don't "know" anything. You are a bunch of chemicals reacting to other chemicals.

Thus the following is nonsense.

This necessarily means determinism; i.e., every current action, down to those of the smallest subatomic particles, was predetermined 16 billion years ago. Emotions are just predetermined chemical reactions. There is no free will.

You cannot know what happened "16 billion years ago" because it was totally determined. You cannot "know" that those numbers are accurate. You whole argument falls apart.

And, you cannot postulate a "God" because you have no basis upon which to know anything. If you do not accept the validity of your senses you have no basis upon which to understand anything, including the concept of said, "God."

You cannot escape free will because you must chose whether to eat or starve, jump off the bridge or not, get a job or not, go on welfare or not, whether to masturbate or not. You are confronted with free will every moment of every day, in almost every situation. You cannot, from an apriori supposition, as you are doing here, assert that free will doesn't exist, because you cannot prove the apriori supposition. BY DEFINITION.

92 posted on 04/07/2004 10:23:01 PM PDT by LogicWings
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