Army sets sights on XM8, a lighter, more-reliable rifle

Newark Star Ledger ^ | 3/21/2004 | Wayne Woolley

[Incorrigible]

The replacement, called the XM8, is under development at Picatinny Arsenal in Morris County and is being tested at Fort Benning, Ga.

Developers say the rifle with the futuristic-looking curves is a marked improvement over the M-16 because it is shorter, lighter, easier to clean and unlikely to jam in a firefight -- an M-16 shortcoming illustrated in the ambush that wounded former POW Jessica Lynch and killed 11 of her comrades in Iraq.

[reluctantwarrior]

The basis for lethality isnt a contender or an XM177E2 its whether a 5.56mm from an M4 or the Xm8 will be lethal from a 9.5in barrel, the muzzle velocity will be to low. If you think you know more than the dentist prove it. The realization that you dont care about effectiveness but carp on about rifle racks is enlightening, The thread is about the XM8, so I guess you will wait another four years for rifle racks, little davey.

[reluctantwarrior]

No the XM8 is a HK G36 and is a salvage from the OICW abortion This is HK corporate welfare. Dave you really should consider a new line of propaganda.

[Euro-American Scum]

I've heard only good things about the HK-USP pistols, though I don't own one. I have handled them several times and they fit the hand nicely. They also have a very well thought out manual of arms. They also are easily converted to left handed set up, or to DAO, etc.

I suppose beauty is in the eye of the beholder. But I've never handled the HK USP comfortably. In any caliber. The stock is simply too big to get my hand around. And that's saying something, because I own two Para Ordnance double-stack .45s, and they fit my hand like a glove.

Second, I never saw the value of a DA/SA pistol. And since all my guns were bought as self-defense weapons, I would hate to get into a firefight and forget which firing mode I'm in. Also, I don't like the long trigger pull on the first round in single action.

I don't doubt the quality of HK firearms. Their reputation precedes them. But when TSHTF, give me something simple and reliable, like a Glock 30.

[reluctantwarrior]

Why the attack on the dentist? IF your so f'n smart where is your ballistic data and FBI gelatin tests on your wonder cartridge?

[Euro-American Scum]

If we're going to get a new rifle now would be a good time to get a new cartridge to go with it.

I doubt that will happen if we still have these NATO types around the U.S. military who want all ammunition standardized. The 5.56 round does that. It won't be easy to change calibers with this round so firmly entrenched, however advisable it would be to do so.

[SevenDaysInMay]

6x45mm ~75-85 gr bullet would help with terminal balistics within 500 meters, IFF <2 m.o.a.

Great little varmint/Taliban round.

Accuracy will suffer in a shorty carbine 6# rifle - a "lite" rifle, especially with burst fire even with red dot scopes.

For several centuries, the infantryman's rifle/(musket) weighed 9-12#, when the average soldier weighed ~140#. Since Rome - 100 generations ago, the foot soldier's gear weighed ~30-40 kg each, but they were not incumbered by Patsy Schroeder & Co.

[Atchafalaya]

Looks like it was made by Zebco; 4lb. test line recommended!

[Squantos]

To replace the weapon and keep the caliber is foolish IMO. 6.5MM Grendel is an awesome caliber to consider ! If the DOD sticks with 5.56MM then at the very least go to the Black hills 77gr round and a suitable twist rate in the barrel......Mk262 I believe is the DODIC.

Stay Safe !

[Travis McGee]

I agree. 5.56 out of a ten inch barrel is a JOKE. If we're going to do this, at least do it in 6.8mm.

[Squantos]

Faster than the Krag ? I have one of each and consider the Enfield much slower/rougher than my 30-40 aka 30 army Krag . Maybe I just have a bad example of the enfield No 4 Mk 1..........

Stay safe .........BTW have ya peeked, shot, read up on or handled the 6.8MM SPC or the 6.6MM Grendel ? Opinions ?

[rmlew]

Chinese have armies. Turks and Mongols have hordes. (Ordo/Urdu-->horde) The word means military camp/formation.

As for the XM8, it looks like a nice carbine.
The 5.56 bullet fired from a carbine seems somewhat deficient in killing power. How about redesigning the bullet. (Perhaps a small hollow area at the head of the shell. This should create rather nasty wounds as the shell twists and disintigrates in the target.)

[rmlew]

If we need a shorter gun, why not go with a bullpup design?
The new Israeli Tavor has a longer barrel than the XM8 at 460mm, but is still shorter at 720mm.
http://world.guns.ru/assault/as30-e.htm

[archy]

If we need a shorter gun, why not go with a bullpup design?
The new Israeli Tavor has a longer barrel than the XM8 at 460mm, but is still shorter at 720mm.
http://world.guns.ru/assault/as30-e.htm

Probably not so long as conventional cased cartridges remain standard, though Britain's L85A2/SA80 and the French FAMAS G2 are opening the door. But neither offer immediate ambidextrous operation, though the FAMAS can be switched over from righthand to lefthand operation as quickly as it can be field stripped, and the optical sights coming into service bring us a little closer to that end.

But not until a truly ambidextrous design with either downward ejection of fired cases or possibly forward-through-the-foreend as one other offering features will we get there. Likewise, the sights have to be immediately adaptable to either left or right-handed use, and we're just not there yet. -archy-/-

[archy]

One thing I've wondered about: would it be practical or advisable to design a rifle with a trigger that worked like an electric typewriter's "X" key [push lightly for one strike, mash for automatic?] I would think that in a surprise situation, it would be difficult to flip a selector lever in the heat of the moment, while applying an extra 5 pounds or so on the trigger would be easy if not automatic.

There've been several such designs, many on Beretta submachineguns, on the reasonable assumption that in the most usual circumstances, a carefully aimed shot is more likely to connect, but in the event of gut-wrenching panic, the operator only needs to yank the trigger as hard as possible and hang on.

The Ingram M6 SMG was one of the few American weapons to offer the feature, but trigger mechanism components that offer that feature have been developed as a replacement for M16A1 mechanical components, and can be fitted in the M16A2 or M4 carbine as well.

[quietolong]

Look and sounds like more junk.
They can’t afford bullets now yet they waste money on this crap.

PROCUREMENT: Why There's a Bullet Shortage
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1056371/posts

And this is not the only one there trying to pass off.

A new machine gun for GI Joe [new XM312 .50 cal]
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1033981/posts


If someone in the Soviet military would have come up with this stuff. If he was lucky Old Uncle Joe would have him sent off to Siberia.

Do you really want Clinton holdovers making weapons for the troops?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1033981/posts?page=150#150

[archy]

I look at these upcoming developments with two considerations firmly in mind: if the cartridge does not happen to work out or prove suitable under the circumstances of the conditions of some future conflict, can the weapon at least be refitted or converted back to the preceding technological state of the art, in this case the 5,56mm/M855 cartridge. It looks like the XM8 has no problems in that respect.

Remember that in the 1930s when John Garand was developing America's first semiauto service rifle, he had originally intended it for a 10-shot .276 cartridge that would have probably been an improvement over the 1906 cartridge design used in the M1903 Springfield rifle, itself in its third generation of cartridge and second major modification of rifle. But the stocks of leftover WWI ammunition were huge, and the financial conditions of the Great Depression dictated that we could have the new rifle, or the new ammunition, but not both, and then Army Chief of Staff Douglas MacArthur ordered that the new rifle be fielded in the same .30-06 ammunition as the M1903 Springfield, M1917 rifle, the B.A.R, and the .30 caliber machineguns. The war came, and MacArthur's decision proved to be a good one, and soldiers from Patton to priovate praised the Garand rifles they'd carried through that war. Half a decade later, the surprise of another war in Korea came to us, and the Garand proved still suitable in that conflict as well. And still it soldiers on today, here and there, as in Haiti, where it's recently had a part in another dictator's regime change.

If the 6,8x43 cartridge, not too dissimilar from the 7x44mm cartridge once proposed by the Danish Madsen firm proves to be more generally suitable than the 5,56mm, swell, we've again advanced the state of the art, and done a little more to give the American fighting man the best possible equipment with which to accomplish his task. If that cartridge changeover proves to be financially or technologically unsuitable, we can use the new rifle in the old cartridge chambering, maintaing the option of an eventual conversion *someday* if possible. And it's at least possible to changeover older M16/M16A1/M16A2/M4/AR15 rifles as well, should the new ammunition be an absolute success, as support and rear-area backwater troops have their capabilities enhanced, first with the new ammo, maybe eventually with the new weapons as well.

That looks like a win-win opportunity to me, well thought out and with fallback options if a part of the overall puzzle doesn't fit. My immediate respoonse has been to shop around for a few more AR15 lower receivers, at least one to be built up in the configuration with which I'm particularly familiar and fond of. The others may wind up in trim that conforms to the more recent thinking, or may not; we'll see how the Barrett and HKM4 upper receiver configurations work out in service. I'' be watching and listening carefully, but I don't at all consider myself locked into either the M16 platform or either the old 5,56mm or new 6,8mm ammunition.

[ought-six]

"I'll take an M-1 Garand any day. That or Thompson..."

I like the Garand, but I love the M-14.

[SJSAMPLE]

So, the name originally developed for the cartridge is no longer valid?

[SJSAMPLE]

I will consult my load bucks (Speer, Hornady, Winchester, Remington, Nosler, et al) and get back to you.

[Peter J. Huss]

If I had a choice and could only have one gun, I will stick with the Russian Ak-104: