Army sets sights on XM8, a lighter, more-reliable rifle

Newark Star Ledger ^ | 3/21/2004 | Wayne Woolley

[Incorrigible]

The replacement, called the XM8, is under development at Picatinny Arsenal in Morris County and is being tested at Fort Benning, Ga.

Developers say the rifle with the futuristic-looking curves is a marked improvement over the M-16 because it is shorter, lighter, easier to clean and unlikely to jam in a firefight -- an M-16 shortcoming illustrated in the ambush that wounded former POW Jessica Lynch and killed 11 of her comrades in Iraq.

[Ursus arctos horribilis]

I carried the M1 Garand over four decades ago and still do, I have one over 61 years old in the gun safe now. It is still deadly accurate out to 500 meters, and that is with Lyman's #311284 215 gas checked cast boolit. (No mis-spell, http://www.aimoo.com/forum/freeboard.cfm?id=514616 )

The M1 is a rifleman's rifle, to have used it is to love or hate it, very little room for a middle ground. I love the American steel and walnut of the thing, invented by a Canuck or not.

[SJSAMPLE]

Thats the M40A1 pulse rifle from Aliens.
Actually, it's a Thompson .45ACP SMG with plastic doo-dads.

[Tailback]

You'd love my Garand. She's a Danish return that was re-barrelled in Nov. 1966 with a Danish VAR barrel. (The VAR barrels have a reputation as being very accurate) I had her reparkerized and a new stock put on. A picture of a Garand done the same way as mine is here.....

http://www.dgrguns.com/4-2-stocks-Bastogne-Hybrid-Walnut-with-Type-1-Finish.htm

[reluctantwarrior]

There are two issues one is caliber and the other is barrel length. I don't care if we go back to flintlocks firing .75 caliber round lead balls, as long as we don't spend a billion dollars to dress up a 5.56mm weapon using a 9.5 to 12.5 in barrel. The caliber doesn't kill and generally takes several hits to incapacitate so most soldiers empty a mag at a target, bad for the loggies to resupply. The barrel length's of less than 14 inches do not allow sufficient muzzle velocity for the round to be lethal at ranges greater than 150 for 12.5 and at the muzzle for 9.5inches. So I would prefer a M4 with an Op rod and 6.8mm SPC caliber with a 14in barrel.

[Tailback]

Funny you mentioned that, H&K designed a piston upper for the M16 series that pins right on to the standard lower reciever. It can also use the 6.8 SPC.

I wish someone who knows could tell me whether the XM8 can be chambered in 6mm XC.

[reluctantwarrior]

The design allows multiple chamber configurations so I dont see why not.

[AdamSelene235]

Behold The Future !!!

Infantry rifle and sidearm both chambered in .17 HMR for 2010

[TXnMA]

The P7 is a bit of a cult gun, and loved by many

Count me among the 'many'.

Less than two hours ago, I put 17 rounds through my P7M8 -- rapid fire at 15 meters -- and all in a 2.5" circle.

My bumper sticker reads, "Insured by H&K"...

[crz]

Why the hell do we need a overgrown pistol for a infantry weapon?

I got a mini 14..and wish I would have got the mini 30 instead but they had to order one. The ruger uses the garand action and I defy anyone to get this action to misfire with even the "usual" amount of care-of course I suppose someone could make it malfunction if they were hard enough on it. Problem is, it is not accurate but I understand that one can get a longer barrel to improve on that. Still all in all, it'll click off round after round.

[Junior]

Bump as a bookmark.

[BulletBobCo]

[Criminal Number 18F]

10.5 inch barrel equals insufficient muzzle velocity at the muzzle to be lethal, what a great new rifle for killing the Chinese hoards.....stop the madness.

Worked just fine in the XM177E2.

It's "hordes."

Anything in 5.56 is probably a stopgap, but a caliber change is a really big deal. Most of the guys making the most noise are not what they claim to be. There are a lot of Luddites who want to revert to some piece of junk like the M14. Heck, I have an 1861 Enfield that will put a 58-calibre slug into a guy -- if you can hit him with it. For all the noise about the superiority of the AK, it's much harder to hit someone in a vital area with that weapon, and AK wounds are more survivable than equivalent 5.56 NATO wounds.

Most of the M4s this article says are "worn out" are less than three years old. My M4A1 never, ever jammed. Of course, I didn't use the "minority business set-aside contract" green-follower magazines that don't work.

If they do replace the M16 series and the 5.56mm cartridge they have to have a concrete plan for replacing about 1.2 million rifles and carbines, 300,000 light machine guns (M249 SAW) and for modifying various logistical databases and procedures. When we got the M-4s, it took 4 years for the proper rifle racks for storing them in the arms room to catch up.

Unfortunately every hobby shooter in America thinks he is an expert on infantry weapons. Some of the more narcissistic and determined ones, like that stupid dentist, amass followers.

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F

[Criminal Number 18F]

I dont recognize the weapon?

The "weapon" im Post 13 is some kind of a Hollywood mockup. Note the upper and lower receivers from a 1921/28 Thompson under all the plastic.

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F

[TomasUSMC]

This is the most important improvement -
and in basic configuration are planned to deliver single shots and full auto fire.

The M16 use to have full auto and then they took that away so they could make more money developing another squad automatic weapon. Jive arguments that the troops fired too many bullets were used. ( Fire discipline is a taught skill, not one to be limited by technological limiters.)

Right now we are outgunned in close quarters in Iraq because the enemy has full auto on every weapon and much of every squad is limited to 3 round bursts. When you need suppressive fire in an ambush,you need it now, and you can't wait for the designated squad automatic weapon to get into position.

Now everyone will have full auto again. Its about time.

[kenth]

Could they wuss up a rifle any more? It's supposed to be deadly, not fashionable.

[supercat]

10.5 inch barrel equals insufficient muzzle velocity at the muzzle to be lethal, what a great new rifle for killing the Chinese hoards.....stop the madness.

What's wrong with bull-pup rifles that some design work couldn't cure? I've been told left-handed shooters have problems because they send brass out the right side into the shooter's face, but I would think such problems should be solvable. Certainly I would think the added barrel length in a weapon of this sort of overall length would be valuable.

[supercat]

I thought I recognized that rifle from Aliens, with the brilliant round-counter on the SIDE?

[AdamSelene235]

with the brilliant round-counter on the SIDE?

Well how else is the audience suppose to see it?

I would have placed it facing the enemy.

[Army Air Corps]

The Lee-Enfield No.4 Mk 1 is a nice rifle as well. Mine feels the way a firearm should; robust, easy to handle, and fun to fire.

[Criminal Number 18F]

The M1 is a rifleman's rifle, to have used it is to love or hate it, very little room for a middle ground.

As rifles go it is an excellent machine, and a remarkable piece of history. If a hazard to an unwary thumb. But it is no more at home today on the battlefield than a Brown Bess (also an excellent machine, and a remarkable piece of history). I don't have either of those for my collection, yet. Hmmm... need to fix that.

I do have some percussion guns and a lot of 20th Century battle rifles like a 1941 Johnson, a 1940 Tokarev and an SAFN 49. I wouldn't carry any of them in combat, and neither would most other guys who had a choice (I did have one eccentric buddy who carried an M14 sometimes, often along with an M4A1 and/or shotgun).

What the barrel length debate is missing is that ammunition is formulated for a given barrel length. That's why if you shoot a Soviet Type44 Carbine you'll get tremendous fireballs -- the ammo is designed to be shot in M1891/30s and machine guns with 24 to 30 inch barrels, and the T44 is 16". It also gives up a lot of velocity. But making the barrel any longer than you need to burn 100% of your powder is counterproductive. It does not make the weapon any more accurate, or give the velocity any increase once the powder has done its chemical-energy thing. (Actually the velocity may decrease from incremental friction). Ergo, if we can formulate a load that works in 10" we don't need to carry the extra weight.

The present M4A1 is accurate for hitting people out to 500m with the ACOG (most common sight in the field).Iron sights took 150 years to die, but they are finally going away... Deficiencies in the battlefield performance of the 5.56mm M855 round are well known and solutions are in development.

This separation of the M8 from the Shinseki "Objective" OICW boondoggle is a microcosm of how this Chief of Staff thinks. Expect a solution to the terminal velocity/lethality issue to be forthcoming with similar rapidity (the XM8 program started two years ago!)

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F