Get Yer Ya-Yas Out [FR Moderating Gripe Thread]

[I Am Not A Mod]

LM here.

It's been a while since we had a thread along these lines.

I can tell from comments I am seeing in threads, on abuse reports, and in Freepmail that some people are unhappy with various policies and their implementations by the staff here.

I've seen allegations that certain factions are picked on. I've seen allegations that the moderators have killed activism. I've heard rumors that we killed Kenny, and even that we killed the radio star. I see certain personality conflicts acting up, and know that one (or both) sides in it feel that we aren't doing what we should.

So let's open this can of worms.

This thread is for making your grievances heard. If you think something stinks or is wrong, make your case here. Back it up with facts. Let the audience at large weigh in on your evidence.

I'll read the thread. Jim will too in all likelihood. So will the other moderators. Depending upon how well you make your point, and depending on if you can convince Jim, me, the other moderators, and/or the world, maybe you can change things. And if you don't, then it might make you feel better to have vented, so it won't make this thread a total loss.

I'm not going to reply to this thread for quite a while. Rather, I am going to sit back and watch to try and get a feel for the general tenor. I encourage those who are both happy and unhappy with things to particpate in this thread.

Let's rock.

[cyborg]

I think there should be a rule about not clicking on abuse reports if one is in the SBR. That was a good thread but as I recall it came down to a few people flaming eachother.

[Xenalyte]

I can go you one better (or worse). My lodge had a temporary attack of imbecility and decided we would sell - get this - light bulbs. Door to door.

[Churchill Gomez]

If I were a mod I would automatically delete every thread whose title contained an error. Errors in titles cannot be excused! E.g., omitting spaces before and after parens is absolutely unforgivable 99 percent of the time.

To All: EDIT THOSE TITLES before posting, unless you prefer gump status.

EOM

[Willie Green]

No, the thread was an "action thread" with a call to action.

IMHO, activists should be prepared to respond intelligently to legitimate criticism of their position. Slogan-chanting mud-slinging and/or censoring of opposing views are boringly ineffective and counterproductive.

The moral of the story is to not pee on other peoples parades.

And people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Bush, Rove, Zoellick, Snow and Mankiw handed the 'Rats a legitimate issue on a silver platter.
It is irrelevant that Kerry's positions are equally pathetic and hypocritical.
Regardless of partisan label, candidates for public office need to be held accountable for their own position.
Shifting blame by pointing fingers at somebody else is a flimsy and untenable position.

[TheSpottedOwl]

We ALL already have an IGNORE BUTTON within us IF WE will use it.

I know, but sometimes it's just too tempting. Maybe I should give up debate for lent?

[TheSpottedOwl]

Taking specific action against an offender after being warned (I would suggest by FReep mail) or even a "Knock it Off," would seriously reduce the flame wars and number of abuse reports, many of which are simply ignored.

Yes, and if all else fails, you can fall back on Democrat Party tactics and scream racist in open forum :-)

[Choose Ye This Day]

mhking may still want to maintain the ping list and alert those who want to be alerted that way. But I think it would be great to have those in one spot, whether it be a separate sidebar topic or whatever works. Thanks again for considering it.

[Churchill Gomez]

mhking's ping business should be permanently suspended!

[Quix]

We all fall to that temptation on occasion, at least, it seems.

But we could grow in that disciplined use of it.

And, then there are those times when someone is REALLY acting like a turkey and

REALLY, honestly 'for their own growth'

and certainly for the sanity of the community if not of the responder,

THEY *NEED* A GOOD STIFF SLAP UPSIDE THE HEAD WITH A HEFTY 2 X 4!

AT least, that's my rationalization!

[Joe Hadenuf]

I have seen Fred beating his chest to get me out in the open for a year now.

I think I can see why. About a week ago, while beating your chest, you admitted in open forum that you routinely, knowingly, hire illegal aliens. LOL!

[Texas2step]

It was backroomed, and the complaints still were piling in, until Jim got sick of it and pulled it.

You'll have to convince him, not me, on it if you want that one back. Thanks, LM

I've got no dog in this fight, as I didn't post a single comment to the thread in question. That said, I had bookmarked for later reading and now cannot read what was shaping up to be an interesting read.

Whether or not the pulled thread in question is ever available again, I do think that it's unwise to punish all for the actions of the few. What would be wrong with simply locking the thread to not receive further replies once it has gotten to a certain level of abusive posts?

That would effectively end the flame war and leave everyone's comments, stupid or otherwise, open for all to see. What do you gain by pulling that you couldn't get by locking? Pull posts ought to be saved for disruptors, trolls, and duplicates, not flame wars where one side effectively "gets their way".

[Texas2step]

I think there should be a rule about not clicking on abuse reports if one is in the SBR.

Let's go one step further...is there anyway to remove the abuse button from threads moved to the SBR? I thought that's why we have a SBR, was to allow flame wars to die natural deaths without burning everyone.

[Texas2step]

And people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Who's throwing stones? I suggested that your comment on that post had nothing to do with the content of the post, which was a call to action.

activists should be prepared to respond intelligently to legitimate criticism of their position

Yes, but that wasn't the place for that discussion. The place for that discussion was on one of the many, many, many job loss/job gain threads that are posted every day.

These were people who were trying to get other people involved in activist actions. You ought to applaud them for that instead of damping their post with your negative comments.

Your comment, on that specific thread, was out of place and unwelcome. It would have been unwelcome on most threads, but not out of place. Let's discuss, but let's not dampen activism.

[Quix]

THANKS TONS for stating this.

I've certainly experienced it and observed it but never quite articulated it so accurately, even in my own mind.

I just flinched a lot.

[TheSpottedOwl]

I've certainly experienced it and observed it but never quite articulated it so accurately, even in my own mind.

We can thank Agitator for this excellent post. My writing is no where as good as his.

I first experienced this on the Westerfield threads. After that experience, when someone says something totally out of line, I shoot back, however I try to stick to the subject at hand and try not to focus on hairy palms, eye of newt and toe of frog, etc...

[Quix]

Great plan and habit.

I'll try and follow your excellent example. No guarantees! hehe.

I guess I still have a bias.

Children acting out sheer rebellion and defiance need swatted appropriately.

And SOME posters acting like 2 year olds need a verbal slap upside the head.

But then there are those, one would be wisest not to stoop so low as.

[Quix]

BTW, a friend in pottery class at the college has gotten into making spotted owl canisters.

He's 20 something. A good Believing Christian.

Anyway--I know him to be somewhat of a fiesty and very original sort of guy.

So I asked him if he liked and supported spotted owls.

His typically him response was:

Yeah! They are delicious!

[NittanyLion]

I’m not talking about people who happen onto a thread, I mean a pack of regulars who operate in concert. These aren’t people who are interested in debate, they’re interested in squelching debate. They’re professional flamemeisters, verbal log-rollers who specialize in pushing their opponents to the point of getting themselves banned. They’re nasty, vituperative, angry, combative people who appear to define their lives by their online personas. They’re incapable of a civil discussion.

Well stated. That's been my experience as well.

[Vernon]

Please be advised I posted nothing to you; however, if the shoe fits, wear it and stop complaining.

[cyborg]

I think you have a great idea.