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BTW, you still did not answer the question but by your answers I guess we can figure it out. Nor did you refute my facts from the koran nor from muslim polls around the world and America. Sad just sad. Can't refute facts so you must go for those character attacks..LOL and prove you lost the argument. Typical of the response muslim usually give when they are posting false info about islam here on this board and are confronted with the words of their koran they can not put in a good light. Waste of my time not even up to the challenge. LOL

BTW on top of having studied the religion I have several lapsed muslim friends who are out of the clutches of their families and they know what they are talking about when it comes to islam.

We are done.

Islam does cause a quandary doesn't it. On one hand I want to support religious freedom, even if I disagree with it 100%.

On the other hand, these people believe in order to follow their religion they must enslave women and kill people.

I grew up near Dearborn Michigan, and there is a large population of Iranian and Iraqi people who are escapees from their countries.

Barring some minor cultural differences, they were easy to get along with. They were very decent people and freedom loving people.

They were running from the "religion of peace" as much as anything else.

I always felt bad for the ones who wanted to go home to their countires, but knew they would be killed if they tried.

I can not imagine not being able to go home.

My apologies, but I wasn't aware that you actually asked a question. It appears to me that you made a statement, or more properly a series of statements. I did not call you a liar on them, because I recognize that some of what you said is, in fact, true. There are parts of the Koran that call for the killing of infidels. You, however, are mistaken in considering that a call to kill Christians and Jews, who are are called "People of the Book." Infidels are actual pagans, like the Hindus, Zoroastrians, all the sub-Saharan African religions, Druids, our American Indians, etc. There are, likewise, parts of the Koran where Mohammed (or Allah, through him, if you buy their authenticity) tells his people not to trust or ally with the other people of the Book, as he was very disappointed in them. There are parts of the Bible where God supposedly set bears to tear children limb from limb for making fun of his prophet. Isaiah, and I'll leave looking that up to you. I've had it explained to me that "children" in that context meant a bunch of know-it-all teenagers, and I could understand that, but the book says children.

As for my not spending a great deal of time on you, I've been visiting my wife in the hospital, and don't have the time to spend doing serious research. As far as my response to another poster, I've dealt with her before, and she was told to leave me alone, and I her, and I've been avoiding posting on threads where she posts. Her 2 cents in this thread is a direct violation of Jim Robinson's instructions to both of us. You call me a liar, and I'll respond to you rather more strongly, as well.

You may believe I'm mistaken, but I'm quite sincere in my mistakes, if so. You are studying Islam. I'd suggest you do so a little more thoroughly. Go to Turkey, and visit some of the sites there. The Turbe of the Mevlana, in Konya, for instance. When I was there in the mid-80's, a whole bus-load of Americans walked thorough the museum there, and did not take a single photograph because the place felt holy to us all. I was not a Christian then, but even I recognized it. It was, in fact, one of the reasons I investigated Islam. It was not, however, holy enough, so I did not become a Muslim.

As for character attacks, I haven't made any on you. Called you wrongheaded, more or less, yes, mistaken, yes, indeed. I've also tried to help you understand that not ALL Muslims are the problem, just some of them. You still don't seem to get that. I've no problem at all with killing the ones who are the problem, either. Your foolish identification of all Muslims as the problem is, however, a serious problem, itself. If you want to have to kill all 1 billion or so of them, you are just plain nuts. There aren't enough of us to do it, unless we start using nukes indiscriminately, and that would get US destroyed. Every other country in the world (except possibly Israel) would turn on us. That might well be what the Book of Revelation is about, and it may happen anyway, but to invite it through sheer stupidity is not the answer.

As far as your "facts" from Muslim polls, where were the polls taken? Palestine? Saudi Arabia? I have already agreed with you that the Saudis are high on my list of bad examples of Muslims. The Palestinians aren't much better, but at least they have something resembling a reason for their insanity. Did any of your polls get taken in Turkey? How about Turkmenistan? Kazakhstan? Georgia? Albania? Where? Substantial portions of all those countries and many others are Muslim. I may not have mentioned to you, but to another poster, that much of the "missionary" work performed by Muslims is funded by the Saudis. Even here in the US. They are hard-line Wahhabis. You seem to think that Islam is a monolithic religion, as well as monotheistic. The Wahhabi sect was founded in the late 17th century. It's only a century or so older than America. You could think of it as the Muslim equivilent of our Puritans. IF you want to discuss our differences, I'd be happy to. You may have info I don't have, and I'm SURE I have info you don't. Maligning my character is not conducive to discussion, however, and I've tried not to malign yours. I think you are sadly, badly, mistaken, but at least I take it for an honest opinion. The witch I referred to, I called that because her actions towards me have led me to believe that is just exactly what she is. If Jim wants to ban me because I won't tolerate any more crap from her, that is his privilege, as it's his site.

Hey, a quick update for you--(I've been reading your posts on this thread.) Apparently, the Chinese have been ripping DVDs of the Passion and distributing it worldwide in their typical smuggler type fashion. They are selling like hotcakes in Saudi Arabia and other countries. Some have reported that people are selling them out of car trunks and so on.

I just saw it last night. I can't think of a better therapy for the poor blind slaves of Islam!