Saudi Sermon: Time for Christians and Jews to Convert to Islam

IMRA ^ | March 14, 2004 | FBIS

[PhilipFreneau]

This is what really ticks off the muslim cultists:

"And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him. And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation. But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year." -- Genesis 17:19-21

[ZULU]

I think its time to sharpen those crusader swords, flush out those feel-good idiot liberal ministers and prest who preach co-exist, and adopt the philosophies of more intelligent individuals who had to deal with the Islamic menace in the past like Charles Martel, Richard the Lion Hearted, Charlemagne, Vlad Tepes, Andrea Doria, Isabella and Ferdinand, Godfrey, Baldwin I - Defender of the Holy Sepulcher and King of Jerusalem, Tancred, etc, etc.
(not to mention such recent heros as Steven Decatur, etc.)

[Old Student]

There is a difference between general ignorance, ignorance of certain facts, and stupidity. I'm seeing quite a lot of all three, but all I can do anything about is the middle one. I'm trying to help some folks see the few facts they missed, and are therefore ignorant of. Anyone who wants to take it as a general condemnation of their intelligence is welcome to do so, if they so choose.

You seem to have missed Torquemada, the Nazis, the Albigensian campaigns in France, both the Reformation and Counter-Reformation, the 30 Years War, both the Puritans and Pilgrims, and quite a few others. It has been only in the few years after His crucifixion, and rather recently that most Christians have spent more time trying to be Christ-like and less time trying to insure their neighbors were toeing the line. There are still a whole lot of them, including some members of my church, who are in that mode. Which is kind of silly of them, as the reason my church is based in Utah is because of others who can't seem to remember Christ's message. If more people worried about the beam in their own eye, they'd be less inclined to point out the mote in others eyes.

In case you hadn't noticed, Gaza and the West Bank are in Palestine. I'm going to say this one more time, and a little more explicitly: There are Muslims who are more Christ-like than many so-called Christians, and there are so-called Christians who are more Satan-like than the worst of the Muslims. There are also quite a few Christians whom I'm sure Jesus is quite happy with, including those who got killed this past week, who were Baptists. Condemning all of ANY people because of the actions of a few is sheer stupidity. It is equally stupid to think that all of any people are good because a few are, but I've met quite a few Muslims, so I think I have seen a fairly good sample. The Muslims have heard of Jesus, btw, they just don't think he's the Son of God. They call him Issa, usually, and consider him one of the old-time prophets. They think his message was ignored and lost by the Jews, and misconstrued by his followers who became the Christians.

I still say the Turks are good examples of Muslims. They focus on the parts of the Koran that apply to now, and not to the early days on the Arabian Penninsula, unlike some people.

And as far as my being a good student or not, I don't have to be a good student to know a hatchet job when I see one. Let's see, here, What Would Jesus Do? Teach, or just complain about the beliefs of others?

[Diva Betsy Ross]

"Again, it's all about control. Very Satanic"

Those are the exact words I have heard come out of the mouths of people who have fled Iraq and Iran. Islam is not a religion of peace.

From what I understand, there are some people who follow a "watered down" version of Islam here in the states...but the basic disagreement comes from the desire for freedom and life, vrs. enslavement and death that true Islam offerers.

Given the chance, I am told,by people in the know, many will take freedom, life and harmony with others, if given the opportunity.

I do believe that is the whole idea behind hearts and minds. Once these people taste freedom and choice, many will never go back to the hate and death.

Well lets see, could that be what Al queda is afraid of? I think yes... it is a house of cards.

[ovrtaxt]

It has been only in the few years after His crucifixion, and rather recently that most Christians have spent more time trying to be Christ-like and less time trying to insure their neighbors were toeing the line.

Consider the concept that regular, good, decent people don't make the news. They usually don't make the history books either. You can't possibly believe that statement. There have been large numbers of Jesus's followers who have remained faithful to His teachings throughout history.

[ovrtaxt]

There are Muslims who are more Christ-like than many so-called Christians, and there are so-called Christians who are more Satan-like than the worst of the Muslims. There are also quite a few Christians whom I'm sure Jesus is quite happy with, including those who got killed this past week, who were Baptists. Condemning all of ANY people because of the actions of a few is sheer stupidity. It is equally stupid to think that all of any people are good because a few are, but I've met quite a few Muslims, so I think I have seen a fairly good sample.

Read my previous posts again. I condemn the religion of Islam. Not Muslims. They are simply the primary victims of a suicide cult.

Now terrorists, that's got to be dealt with differently. They are deceived, they think they do God a service, but they must be eliminated for the protection and continuance of civilization. If they get saved first, then good. And the church is reaching out to them with that hope. But the preservation of humanity is too important to hope that they find Christ and do nothing in the meantime while innocents die.

[ovrtaxt]

The Muslims have heard of Jesus, btw, they just don't think he's the Son of God. They call him Issa, usually, and consider him one of the old-time prophets. They think his message was ignored and lost by the Jews, and misconstrued by his followers who became the Christians.

Yes, they have heard of a false depiction of Jesus. But that's not the real Jesus. If He was just a prophet, then He was a false one because He stated that He was the Way the Truth and the Life. And you don't come to the Father except through Him. So was He a liar?

[ovrtaxt]

I still say the Turks are good examples of Muslims. They focus on the parts of the Koran that apply to now, and not to the early days on the Arabian Penninsula, unlike some people.

If parts don't apply to now, then it obviously isn't divinely inspired. Absolute Truth is transcendent.

[ovrtaxt]

What Would Jesus Do? Teach, or just complain about the beliefs of others?

I hope you have learned something, as I have from you. I'm being sincere.

I'm not complaining about anything, but Islam victimizes billions of people, and it will be crushed by the Gospel of Jesus. He plans to set multitudes of Muslims free from the threats of Allah the moon god.

[Old Student]

"I'm not complaining about anything, but Islam victimizes billions of people, and it will be crushed by the Gospel of Jesus. He plans to set multitudes of Muslims free from the threats of Allah the moon god."

I'll accept that you are sincere, easily. So are most of the other people here, inclusive of those who are spouting total nonsense. I don't doubt that the folks who created the website you referred me to are sincere, also. I'm trying to help you understand that Islam is not victimizing billions of people, that it is some people who claim to be of Islam that are doing the victimization. Do you see the difference? Torquemada and his ilk were supported by at least part of the established Christian church at the time (a rather large, important part, in fact), but they were not following the teachings of Jesus. They were not Christians, even though they were running the Western branch of the Christian Church of the time.

It is quite possible to make the case that we don't really know what Jesus taught, because he left us no written records of his testmony. We have it only through the testimony of others. The Koran is in the same boat, really. Mohammed did not leave a written record of his teachings, either. His teachings were recorded after his death, also. I think that the folks who recorded his works either weren't quite as careful about what they recorded, or their work was corrupted more, than Jesus's words, and that has been confirmed to me in prayer, but it isn't something I can prove objectively.

One of the historical facts that I've found is that Ayesha, the youngest of Mohammed's wives,and his daughter, Fatima, were two of those who provided many of the Hadiths that were recorded after his death. You won't find much of what they had to say, however, as later "authorities" despised all women, and changed or discarded much of what they said. They kept only that which was also testified to by other, male, witnesses. Within a hundred years of Mohammed's death, Islam was changed considerably from what he recited to his people, as they absorbed the customs of groups they conquered, kept those they liked, and discarded those they didn't like. Remember that comment of mine about their culture being sick? Mohammed tried to correct that, but he failed there, too.

[Old Student]

Oh, I'm getting really tired, forgot to mention that I'm not so sure that a whole lot of Muslims will be set free of Allah anytime soon. Things could well get worse than they are for all good people, Muslim, Christian, Jew, and pagan. I do believe that all this is a battle between Good and Evil, but I've read the Book of Revelation, too. Things may well get a LOT worse, before they get better. There will be a time when every knee shall bow to Him, but there are going to be some tough times before then. That may be a long ways off, or it may be really soon. The signs, as they say, are all around, but that's been the case for quite a while, too. We don't operate on the same time scale as God does, so I'm not holding my breath waiting, but I'm not certain I've got a while to go, either. Have a good one, perhaps we can continue tomorrow evening. Or maybe not, as I'm supposed to be bailing my wife out the hospital sometime tomorrow, too. Much to do in the meantime.

[Old Student]

and I tripped over something to illustrate my point for you:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/03/20/malaysia.vote/index.html

On the other hand, Al Qaeda is apparently claiming to have bought suitcase nukes in Central Asia, too. What world, what a world...

[Veloxherc]

I am so glad I got up and took a leak over Saudi in a C-130. Which by the way, the pisser is vented to the outside of the aircraft.

[Old Student]

Wanted to, but the commercial liner they chartered to take us home had a holding tank.


I like most Muslims, but I'm not very fond of the Saudis. Arrogant bunch, and gutless at the same time, from the ones I met.

[Diva Betsy Ross]

"Let's get it on........and get it over with, once and for all"

Hi right.. I remembered reading your post last week.. did you see this? Looks like someone else has the same ideas as you!

HERE

[Old Student]

I think for once you and I are in agreement. What do you think of the idea of having IDF start a new recruitment campaign for Hamas: Join Hamas and die for your not-exactly-a-country.

[Hollywoodghost]

Moses was a Hebrew--There were no Jews until later. But did he follow the G-d of Abraham--YES!

[Tribune7]

If the kuffaar do not give people the freedom to cross a red light, how can we give freedom to people to leave Islaam and disbelieve in Allaah when they want to?

Something for Moslems to ponder: If God is all powerful why does He need you to impose His will? Why would you insult God to imply He is too weak to enforce his law?